History of using smokers?? and pictures...... [Archive] - Beesource Beekeeping Forums

View Full Version : History of using smokers?? and pictures......



Groundhwg
04-27-2016, 08:54 AM
Of course many more folks would likely see this in the “Bee Forum” but my questions are not really regarding using a smoker but why we use smokers and how the use was started. I have seen natives in Africa and in the jungles of South America building fires and using smoke to rob bee hives so smoke has been used many places for hundreds of years. But why? Is it just because my daddy’s daddy did? Have read it makes the bees think there is a forest fire so they start eating honey stores and get ready to leave, is this correct? Sort of hard to believe that bees from “bee yards” so many generations removed from any forest fires would know what to do. Really would like to hear the history, if known, as to why we use a smoker and also if any one has pictures of older or antique smokers please post and share them with us. Looking forward to learning more about why we do what we do.
Thanks.

Michael Bush
04-27-2016, 09:57 AM
Here is someone using smoke in a cave painting from Uganda, dated to several thousand years ago.
http://public.media.smithsonianmag.com/legacy_blog/humans-honey-hunter.jpg

The modern smoker with a bellows was invented by Moses Quinby in 1873:
http://beeculture.walsworth.solutions/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Quinbysmoker-203x300.jpeg

From there, here are a few of the successors:
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/Smokers-Excluders-Etc-Continued.html

Groundhwg
04-27-2016, 11:12 AM
Wow, over 100 years since the first smoker as we know it was invented and very little change or improvement. Thanks for the information, very interesting.

Michael Bush
04-27-2016, 02:26 PM
>Wow, over 100 years since the first smoker as we know it was invented and very little change or improvement.

Quinby was a VERY smart man...

Zombee
04-27-2016, 02:49 PM
From a Creationist point of view it's very easy to see why smoke subdues honeybees. They were created that way. Just as a horse was created to submit to a bit. The whole theory that smoke makes bees think they need to fill up because of a forest fire has always made me chuckle. Think about it. Have you ever smoked your bees, had them fill up on honey and then leave the hive because "a fire was coming"? Of course not. We would have quit using smoke millennium ago.

Now I now the Evolutionist will probably jump all over this. First let me say that I am old enough to remember when evolution was a theory that most people chuckled at. Now that it is a religion, it is far easier for me to have faith that something as highly complex as the honey bee and all it's necessary infrastructure was created by design, then the faith it takes to believe that something as highly complex as the honey bee and all it's infrastructure was the result of an accident.

Rock

naturebee
04-27-2016, 03:24 PM
History of Bee Smokers by Paul Jackson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR3U523TLgI

Michael Bush
04-27-2016, 03:25 PM
>Have read it makes the bees think there is a forest fire so they start eating honey stores and get ready to leave, is this correct?

L.L. Langstroth was a very smart man and seldom mistaken, but on this I think he was very much mistaken. It just interferes with their sense of smell.

Groundhwg
04-27-2016, 04:16 PM
So it just confuses the bees and keeps them from getting the intruter alert out to each other?

waynesgarden
04-27-2016, 08:19 PM
So it just confuses the bees and keeps them from getting the intruter alert out to each other?

They evolved over millions of years to communicate through pheromones which the smoke masks.

Wayne

cerezha
04-28-2016, 02:41 AM
Also, if you happens to squish the bee - smoke interfere with alarm signal. In Switzerland they used very weird device for smoking - it is a small container with burning fuel and air flow is provided by breathing into flexible pipe, which comes through special hole in the veil into the mouth. They used way less smoke than us.

Michael Bush
04-28-2016, 07:08 AM
> In Switzerland...

and Austria and Germany... search for imkerpfeife on google.

I have one exactly like this:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Imkerpfeife-Pfeife-Primus-8cm-Bienen-Imkerei-Imker-Smoker-Rauchblaeser-pipe-bee-/121968031233

cerezha
04-28-2016, 01:05 PM
Yes, similar to what I saw. One I saw was brass (?) and old. In Switzerland, beehives integrated into "bee-house" so access to beehives is from inside the "house" - they do not need a lot of smoke inside the "house."

cerezha
04-28-2016, 01:14 PM
...From a Creationist point of view it's very easy to see why smoke subdues honeybees....
Rock
Sorry, I can not see what you see :) this is silly way of explaining Mother Nature. All life on the earth must constantly adapt to changing conditions - Ace Age etc.

McBee7
05-07-2016, 06:52 AM
I have seen some old pics, and read about old beeks who just smoked a stogie/cigar or used a pipe to smoke the bees--I also work with a fellow from El Salvador who used to catch swarms with his grandpa by building a fire on the ground under the swarm and capturing them, but this wanders a bit from the original post--Some say there is no california,,,,I don't know because, I've never been there ;)

==McBee7==

McBee7
05-07-2016, 06:52 AM
I have seen some old pics, and read about old beeks who just smoked a stogie/cigar or used a pipe to smoke the bees--I also work with a fellow from El Salvador who used to catch swarms with his grandpa by building a fire on the ground under the swarm and capturing them, but this wanders a bit from the original post--Some say there is no california,,,,I don't know because, I've never been there ;)

==McBee7==

Daniel Y
05-07-2016, 07:57 AM
I have a bee pipe as well. I prefer it to a bellows smoker because it is always ready and I don't need my hands to operate it. don't suck in though. nasty.

aunt betty
05-13-2016, 05:39 PM
Using a veil and a bee pipe would be tough. The temptation would be to go veil free. Have this habit of blowing bees to get them to move and could see myself getting nailed in the lips. (ouch) I'll stick with the way I was taught. The old Kelly smoke cloud. :)

Michael Bush
05-16-2016, 12:23 PM
>Using a veil and a bee pipe would be tough.

Generally the smoke near your face tends to keep the bees out of your face, but people who wear a veil with this cut a round hole through the veil and whip stitch around it or a disk sewn on with an X cut in it. The pipe goes through the veil.
http://www.taz.de/picture/260547/948/fleischbeinwolfgangborrs79.jpg
http://www.schule-wolfenschiessen.ch/de/images/e5586778ec950.jpg?jsWidth=750&jsHeight=562
http://www.rundschau-online.de/kloster-mariawald--gesegneter-honig--11326082

http://www.rundschau-online.de/image/11325804/2x1/940/470/8e205da2aed33a981627c9e0df062d90/Sg/imker-1--1300651389788-.jpg

http://www.noz.de/lokales/lotte/artikel/275865/fleissiger-imker-fleissige-bienen-viel-honig-aus-wersen#gallery&0&0&275865
http://www.noz.de/media/2013/09/11/em-seinen-schutzanzug-em-braucht-dieter-knevelk_full.jpg
https://onlinejournalismps.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/jeder-hat-ein-glas-im-kuechenschrank-aber-wie-viel-arbeit-darin-steckt-weiss-nur-sie/
https://onlinejournalismps.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/img_87141.jpg
http://www.dusmomente.com/~/media/fdg/momente/fokus%20flughafen/2015/imker/imker_715x590.jpg

Groundhwg
05-18-2016, 11:38 AM
Michael, great picture and information. Very interesting. Guess you would have to be careful and make sure you were not breathing in while your mouth was still on the smoker.

deknow
05-18-2016, 11:43 AM
....depends on what one uses for smoker fuel.

Michael Bush
05-18-2016, 12:57 PM
>Guess you would have to be careful and make sure you were not breathing in while your mouth was still on the smoker.

Mine has a ball valve which makes that impossible.

Groundhwg
05-18-2016, 06:23 PM
....depends on what one uses for smoker fuel.

:applause: :no: :applause:

JDMoodie
05-18-2016, 08:06 PM
Not that I would want to breathe it in but I have been playing with fuels and have settled on spruce cones and mint leaves. Nice thick cool white smoke and I like the smell. I tried pine, burlap and cedar shavings as well as adding some food grade pellets. Some are a little smellier than I would like and others burn too hot or too fast. I find that I may want (need?) a larger smoker just to have a cooler smoke.

I've watched videos of natives in places using various fire and brands to create smoke to harvest wild honey. I'd rather a "modern" smoker anyday.

Makes more sense that it just messes with their sense of smell but it might be that the "go and fill up" instinct is just a method of keeping the open honey from getting contaminated by the smoke. I don't think that they go and chew through cappings to get at cured honey, do they?

Jeff.

aunt betty
05-20-2016, 10:31 AM
Mr Bush seems to like correcting people and has corrected me several times and now it is my turn. It's not a ball valve. It's called a check-valve.

Michael Bush
06-08-2016, 06:42 AM
> It's not a ball valve. It's called a check-valve.

You may be right. But it is a valve. And it contains a ball.

nwvandersys
06-08-2016, 07:16 AM
> It's not a ball valve. It's called a check-valve.

You may be right. But it is a valve. And it contains a ball.


Making it a ball check valve...

NickAdams314
06-08-2016, 01:06 PM
I am currently using my dad's old smoker from the 1940's. (He kept bees for a few years, and then it got put away in the attic for the next 50 years).

It is not terribly old in the grand scheme of things, but it is virtually identical to a couple of current models. Still in good shape, works fine, and I like using it...

aunt betty
06-11-2016, 03:11 PM
If it limits flow to one direction that'd be a check-valve and yes...they have a ball and a spring inside. A ball valve looks like this.
https://assuredautomation.com/282/index.php?p=buy&pn=A282NM&gclid=CjwKEAjw7e66BRDhnrizmcGc8VcSJABR6gaRc9qCpcSm 6bMZttseiem9eNCG1g62h6zjIyCKp1jMFRoCziHw_wcB

Now this is a Lunkenheimer gate valve.
http://bullseyeindustrialsales.com/lunkenheimer-6-flanged-iron-gate-valve-125-wsp-68871

Check-valve: https://www.zoro.com/value-brand-swing-check-valve-brass-1-in-npt-ggs6nn91/i/G3747186/?gclid=CjwKEAjw7e66BRDhnrizmcGc8VcSJABR6gaRAaT_gpw bhIo-fvxpAUASRgl-P00u2ymUK03zYuONthoCsXDw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Get it? :)

omnibees
06-11-2016, 10:10 PM
>Wow, over 100 years since the first smoker as we know it was invented and very little change or improvement.

Quinby was a VERY smart man...

i always wonder the about the circumstances that occurred when a human figured out ancient practices like using smoke to keep bees calm when robbing the hive. Obviously it was basic observations of natural events. But how early in those observations did the association of disruption of scent communications become known so as to make the practice one that was reliably consistent.

And who ate the first oyster?

Groundhwg
06-12-2016, 04:16 PM
And who ate the first oyster?

It was the brother of the first guy who looked at a cow and said; "You see them hangey down things, well I am gonna yank on one and drink what were comes out.". His next statement was; "Brother, here, hold my beer."

Michael Bush
06-13-2016, 08:55 AM
>And who ate the first oyster?

I always wondered who would get the idea to take a berry, throw away the fruit, burn the seed, grind it up and boil it to make coffee...

Michael Bush
06-13-2016, 08:57 AM
https://www.zoro.com/apollo-ball-cone-spring-check-valve-bronze-1in-6110501/i/G0936835/

Apparently it's a very small "ball cone spring check valve"...

deknow
06-13-2016, 10:00 AM
>And who ate the first oyster?

I always wondered who would get the idea to take a berry, throw away the fruit, burn the seed, grind it up and boil it to make coffee...

A hero.

Groundhwg
06-13-2016, 12:05 PM
A hero.

Nope, to me the hero was the fellow who invented hot sauce to go with the oysters. :D

Michael Bush
06-13-2016, 12:11 PM
>A hero.

Well s/he certainly changed the world and brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people on a regular basis...

omnibees
06-13-2016, 04:10 PM
>And who ate the first oyster?

I always wondered who would get the idea to take a berry, throw away the fruit, burn the seed, grind it up and boil it to make coffee...

Exactly! How about growing corn. Drying it. Wetting it again. Letting it rot. Boiling it. Cooling the steam. Collecting the drippings. THEN running it through charcoal. And VIOLA! Bourbon! ANOTHER HERO!

omnibees
06-13-2016, 04:13 PM
Exactly! How about growing corn. Drying it. Wetting it again. Letting it rot. Boiling it. Cooling the steam. Collecting the drippings. THEN running it through charcoal. And VIOLA! Bourbon! ANOTHER HERO!

And Then,,,,,,,,,, pouring the bourbon in cup of fresh ground and brewed coffee on a weekend morning! HEAVEN!

aunt betty
06-17-2016, 05:50 AM
https://www.zoro.com/apollo-ball-cone-spring-check-valve-bronze-1in-6110501/i/G0936835/

Apparently it's a very small "ball cone spring check valve"...

With all due respect you need to stick to bees sir. You're arguing with a general contractor over what to call a check valve.
http://www.dac-3d.com/dactrng/prodmech/271D5PHOT.html

Barry
06-17-2016, 06:03 AM
Ball Valve = http://www.cranecpe.com/images/dmImage/SourceImage/jenkins-ball-valves-features.jpg
Check valve = can use any number of designs (ball, flap, spring, no spring, etc.) to create a one directional flow.

deknow
06-17-2016, 06:15 AM
Yes, the flapper valve in a standard smoker bellows is just as much a check valve.

omnibees
06-17-2016, 07:53 AM
With all due respect you need to stick to bees sir. You're arguing with a general contractor over what to call a check valve.
http://www.dac-3d.com/dactrng/prodmech/271D5PHOT.html

AHH HAA! Aunt Betty. I'm with Mr Bush on this one. Your link says "Ball cone spring check valve".

omnibees
06-17-2016, 07:57 AM
Ball Valve = http://www.cranecpe.com/images/dmImage/SourceImage/jenkins-ball-valves-features.jpg
Check valve = can use any number of designs (ball, flap, spring, no spring, etc.) to create a one directional flow.

Barry, could it be a "spring-loaded Ball Flapper"?

deknow
06-17-2016, 07:59 AM
To a general contractor it is a check valve.
To a specific contractor it is a ball cone spring check valve.
:lookout:

Michael Bush
06-20-2016, 11:05 AM
>With all due respect you need to stick to bees sir. You're arguing with a general contractor over what to call a check valve.

I'm not arguing at all. I was just quoting the page you sent me. What I do know is that the pipe has a check valve and it contains a small metal ball.