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hummingberd
05-03-2008, 10:48 AM
I'm gonna be honest, I'm being a little lazy here. I did a quick search and didn't find what I'm looking for so here goes.

I got a 3# package, and have been feeding them sugar syrup. I believe some people add essential oils specifically wintergreen, to their feed to help combat nosema c. is this correct? I have a pail feeder and would like to know exactly how much to add to the syrup. Also, I get really confused but what is the ratio that I should be using right now? Thanks.

For the record, I'm working on small cell and chemical free, sugar free hives :D

Mike Gillmore
05-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Read this recent thread:

https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218407

WJensen
05-04-2008, 07:27 AM
hummingbird,

If you use a product called Honey B Healthy, which is a mixture of essential oils of lemmongrass and spearmint, along with lecathin for solubility, you put 1 tsp in a quart of 1:1 syrup. I know this doesn't address your use of wintergreen though...

Regards,

Wade

MCC
06-02-2008, 09:00 PM
yesterday I googled varroa mites and found a study from the University of West Virginia regarding the use of essential oils to control the mites by feeding them the oils in the sugar water. It listed several different oils and also the amounts per volume. They also had results and receipes to use with crisco.

dragonfly
06-02-2008, 09:51 PM
Generally, you can add essential oils (I use spearmint and lemongrass), but it's difficult to get it to "mix" in well without using lecithin to help emulsify it.
This time of year, you use a 1:1 ratio of sugar and water. For fall feeding, 2 parts sugar to 1 part water.
Anyway, for a recipe with 5# of sugar, you can use 30-50 drops of most essential oils, but if you are going to use any thyme, cut it back to about 1/5 that amount. It's more toxic to bees than most commonly used oils in beehives, and it reportedly causes bees to be irritable.

BEES4U
06-04-2008, 03:02 PM
Results of Research: Using Essential Oils for Honey Bee Mite Control
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/insects/pollinat/varroa/varroa2.htm
Essential Oils have Two Modes of Action:
1) Toxicity by direct contact:
When varroa mites contact essential oils such as wintergreen, patchouli, tea tree oil, et al., mixed into oil or grease, they are killed on contact--usually within a few minutes.

2) Impaired reproduction via feeding syrups containing essential oils:
When varroa mites feed on larvae that contain essential oils, their reproduction is interrupted. If the oil is strong enough, the females are unable to lay eggs. If the oils are in lower concentration, eggs are layed, but development of immature mites is delayed; young mites do not reach maturity before the bees emerge from the cell; consequently, the immature mites die.

Involvement of Essential Oils in Impaired Reproduction of Varroa Mites: Syrup containing the essential oils is fed at the hive entrance or in the broodnest. Many bees feed on the syrup and pass the essential oils around by trophalaxis (adult bees sharing their food reserves). The syrup and essential oil is ingested by nurse bees and enters the communal food in the crop and passes into the milk glands. When the nurse bees feed larvae, the essential oils are in the bee milk and communal food and are ingested by the larvae. Thus, when female varroa mites feed on treated larvae or larval food at the bottom of the cell, they ingest the essential oils which adversely affect their reproduction. The probable mechanism is interference with enzymes in the complex gestation (especially in the production of nutrients and new proteins) of the oocyte and embryo-larva of the varroa mite. Research needs to be conducted to verify this hypothesis and to verify the presence of the essential oils in bee larvae and ultimately, in the female varroa mites.

Impaired reproduction is not observed when canola oil, mineral oil, or shortening (eg., Crisco, a vegetable lard) containing essential oils are delivered to the hives. The fats and greases do not enter the food chain as readily as syrups, and the amounts of essential oils ending up in larval food or in the larvae themselves are inconsequential. Thus, there is no interruption of the development of mite eggs or of immature varroa mites. The mites that directly contact these materials rapidly die; but others are able to escape the essential oils in grease or canola oil by entering cells of mature larvae that are about to be capped, or by moving onto displaced nurse bees (see below, "Recent Findings") near the top of the colony, where the grease patties and tracking strips are not placed. We found that putting paper towels soaked in canola + essential oils in the tops of colonies from July to September, kills the varroa mites residing on the displaced nurse bees which congregate in the upper supers of large colonies.

Feeding of sugar syrup with essential oils at the entrance, or in the brood nest, places the essential oils into the food chain and prevents oviposition by female mites or retards the development of immature mites in capped larval/pupal cells.

We had several colonies that were treated with tracking strips and grease patties only, and we saw resurgence of varroa mites, especially when bee populations were at their peak, lots of brood was present, and when the bees occupied many supers as well as two brood chambers. However, we also had several colonies that were treated with the tracking strips and grease patties, and were continually fed syrup + essential oils at the entrance; in these colonies very few varroa mites were found. Those few that were found appeared to have come into the colonies on drifting bees.

Revised Dosages Used in Experimental Treatments: :)
1). Syrup: 25 drops (1 cc) of wintergreen or spearmint is added to one pint of honey (or two cups of sugar (about one pound or 453.6 grams)) in a quart jar (0.95 liter); hot water is added to fill the jar. We found that more of the essential oil goes into solution in honey than in sugar syrup; there may be a natural emulsifier in honey that helps essential oils to stay in solution. When making sugar syrup, we found that we must add the oil to the granulated sugar then add the very warm water (not too hot or else the oils will evaporate). We feed the bees as much syrup as they will take; Bob uses 1/2 gallon jars on his entrance feeders. We have had good results with wintergreen, spearmint, rosemary and peppermint oils. We plan to conduct experiments this fall and winter combining the essential oils with fumadil in syrup to see if the treatments are compatible. See diagram below for making entrance cleats to eliminate robbing.

Problem: oils mix poorly with water; we have had some reports of a few bees being killed when they feed on the last dregs of the syrup, above which lie pools of undissolved, pure oil;--they become completely wetted by the remaining oil. We are looking for a food based emulsifier which will allow all of the 1 cc or more of essential oil to go into solution in the syrup without harming the bees.

dragonfly
06-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Problem: oils mix poorly with water; we have had some reports of a few bees being killed when they feed on the last dregs of the syrup, above which lie pools of undissolved, pure oil;--they become completely wetted by the remaining oil. We are looking for a food based emulsifier which will allow all of the 1 cc or more of essential oil to go into solution in the syrup without harming the bees.

Yep, that's the reason I use lecithin. It still doesn't mix as thoroughly as I would like, but it is better than the oil separating out.

mistergil
06-05-2008, 06:54 PM
One point to consider- be aware that there is the potential to contaminate honey stores when using oils and some of these oils do have human toxicity so time your treatments accordingly.

BEES4U
06-05-2008, 08:41 PM
Add the e.o.to the sugar 1st

hummingberd
03-25-2009, 11:51 AM
is there any other emulsifier I could use besides lecithin? I'm not even sure where I could get that stuff?

Hambone
03-25-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't know of another. GNC has it. Most herbal store's have it or can get it easily. Stick with the granules too.

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133303&cp=2167069.2108498.2108456

dragonfly
03-25-2009, 02:15 PM
Most herbal store's have it or can get it easily. Stick with the granules too.

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133303&cp=2167069.2108498.2108456

Yes, stick with granules, and dissolve them in water that is almost to the boiling point. When I first started beekeeping, I didn't know about lecithin oil, and found out quickly that it does not mix with sugar-water syrup.;)

hummingberd
03-27-2009, 03:01 PM
Yes, stick with granules, and dissolve them in water that is almost to the boiling point. When I first started beekeeping, I didn't know about lecithin oil, and found out quickly that it does not mix with sugar-water syrup.;)

seriously? Darn. I bought the liquid. So I need to dissolve the crystals in water and then what? What are the ratios I should use?

dragonfly
03-27-2009, 06:06 PM
seriously? Darn.

Seriously.;)

When you are mixing your sugar syrup, reserve about a cup of water to bring to the boiling point (I use a pyrex measuring cup and put it in the microwave). Go ahead and make the rest of your sugar syrup recipe, then when the cup of water comes to a boil, remove it from the microwave (or stove-top) and mix in the lecithin granules. Stir well and let it sit awhile to dissolve as much as possible. For making a gallon of syrup, I use 1/2 half teaspoon of lecithin granules.
Anyway, after dissolving the granules, take a very fine strainer and strain the lecithin/water into the container of syrup. Shake it or stir it to mix, then add the essential oils. There is still going to be some difficulty getting the oils and the lecithin incorporated into the syrup, but it's the best method I have come up with. If anyone else has a better way, I'd love to hear it.

Hambone
03-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Seriously.;) If anyone else has a better way, I'd love to hear it.

I place the lecithin granules in a 1/4-3/8 cup of tap water. Let them soak overnight. Give a stir and the lecithin is dissolved. No hot water or microwave needed. And a 1/4-3/8 cup of water is really not enough to worry about messing up a 1:1 ratio of syrup.

I add my sugar to almost boiling water. Dissolve sugar, reduce heat to mid-high, add the dissolved lecithin and eo's. It will be real cloudy. Stir forever (approx 10 mins) on mid high heat until mixed. The cloudiness will clear up alot. Not to what a straight 1:1 looks like, but you will notice the difference.

This way works great for me.

Zane
03-28-2009, 02:28 AM
Hummingbred. I read a few recipes for "bee healthy"(essential oils, sugar, lecithin and other stuff) and thought it was used as a straight shot after I made the recipe but its not. Only a small amt of "bee healthy" goes into the 1:1 mix. Just didnt want you to make the same mistake I did. I added 10 drops of lemongrass and 10 wintergreen or something like that. The bee's didnt like it. I reduced it alot and now they like it fine. So in short or long! I believe just a couple drops ess oils per gallon should work. Wish I had exact recipe for ya sorry.

dragonfly
03-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Hummingbred. I read a few recipes for "bee healthy"(essential oils, sugar, lecithin and other stuff) and thought it was used as a straight shot after I made the recipe but its not. Only a small amt of "bee healthy" goes into the 1:1 mix. Just didnt want you to make the same mistake I did. I added 10 drops of lemongrass and 10 wintergreen or something like that. The bee's didnt like it. I reduced it alot and now they like it fine. So in short or long! I believe just a couple drops ess oils per gallon should work. Wish I had exact recipe for ya sorry.

For a gallon of sugar sypup, I use 20-30 drops of lemongrass and the same amount of spearmint.

Zane
03-28-2009, 09:41 PM
Dragonfly.
Thats roughly the recipe for a Honey bee healthy right? then you add "that" to the 1:1 in a smaller percentage or do you use your recipe directly to the feeders? I was under the impression the heavy amt of oil would be too hot for the girls? rookie trying to learn too

I have your coneflowers you gave me started inside but just got 8" of snow. Send up some warmth!:D pppplease!

dragonfly
03-30-2009, 02:25 PM
Dragonfly.
Thats roughly the recipe for a Honey bee healthy right? then you add "that" to the 1:1 in a smaller percentage or do you use your recipe directly to the feeders?

No, that is the feeding proportions given directly to the bees.


I have your coneflowers you gave me started inside but just got 8" of snow. Send up some warmth!:D pppplease!

I'm so glad they germinated for you:)
I would send you some warm weather, but we had a really chilly front last week, and it's just now starting to warm back up. Not much warm to send you yet.;)

Zane
03-30-2009, 08:40 PM
Thx DF I will start using the stronger recipe now.

Hambone
03-30-2009, 08:44 PM
Thx DF I will start using the stronger recipe now.

Add 8-12 drops of thyme oil to that formula too. ;)

dragonfly
03-31-2009, 12:37 PM
Add 8-12 drops of thyme oil to that formula too. ;)

The only thing about thyme that makes me a little wary is that is reportedly makes the bees more irritable and agressive, but lots of people use thymol, so I suppose it doesn't matter if you don't mind putting up with it. My bees are irritable regardless.:D

Hambone
03-31-2009, 01:15 PM
I have read that about the thyme oil too. I have mixed it by itself before. I can understand why it would make them irritable. But, when I mix it with the other 2, I can’t even hardly smell the thyme oil. And I have not noticed any attitude difference when I mix all 3 together.

alpha6
03-31-2009, 01:45 PM
I am a big fan of thymol in my feeds, both the patties and syrup. As Derek pointed out with the lemongrass and spearmint oils added you can hardly notice the thymol in the mixes.

Since starting to use my mixes, in a year now, my hives are now mite free and very healthy. Just coming back from Calf. I expected to see a heavy mite infestation like others getting theirs and was surprised to find none. Additionally, no nosema either. One year is not a long time for a study and I am still working out the exact measurements for my feeds, but so far the results have been better and more productive then I could have hoped.

I have both a pattie and a syrup feed if anyone is interested let me know.

mbholl
03-31-2009, 04:29 PM
alpha6 - I'm interested in both patty and syrup mixture. Thanks.

Matt Beekman
04-01-2009, 02:07 PM
alpha6 - I'm interested in both patty and syrup mixture. Thanks.:D

irwin harlton
04-01-2009, 03:42 PM
how much thymol are you putting in your syrup,crystals or oil?

LBEE
04-01-2009, 04:25 PM
Here is another one, alpha6, who would be interested in the recipe.

Thank you.

Larry

alpha6
04-01-2009, 07:14 PM
Sorry for the delay. Below are posted my recipes. Irwin, I use oil and not crystals. It is easier for me. I also recommend using an eye dropper instead of just trying to flick out drops from the bottles. The patties are meant as a feed primarily and a treatment second. From the lack of mites in my hives after returning from Calf. where they should have been infested or at least some sign of them my theory is as follows. Thymol is deadly on contact to mites. I suspect that as the bees stored the patties in the comb as they were packing out the combs for winter feed storage, as mites moved across the comb and contacted the thymol they died. So by having it in the comb it basicly made the comb a mine field for the mites and they died out. That coupled with any that was fed to the larvae would also contact the mites and kill them in this manner.

The liquid feed is meant as a strong treatment for spring or if you are infested with mites and/or your bees have nosema. It will treat both in my experience. You can also use the liquid as a mist over your frames for a quick knock down of mites. The formula is strong, but it has been used effectively by myself with no bee kill.

Alpha6 Feed Recipes

Patties – 5 gallon bucket mixture
2 Cups of Yeast
7 lbs of Sugar
8 drops of thyme
15 drops lemongrass
15 drops spearmint

Measure out the brewer’s yeast into a large container. Add your essential oils as measured above. I recommend using an eye dropper for precise measurements. Pour liquid brewer’s yeast into 5 gallon bucket. Add sugar slowly with mixing with an electric drill equipped with a “mud” paddle. Mix until the consistency is that of a thick mushy mashed potatoes. Add sugar or small amount of yeast to get consistency right. In feeding lots of hives I find you can then pour/spoon this mixture out of the 5 gallon mixing bucket into one used for feeding and then continue to mix a new batch in your mixing bucket. If you try and mix too much, you will burn out your drill which is why I recommend mixing in the above measurements.

Patties – Cement Mixer

2 Quarts of yeast
30 lbs of sugar
32 drops of thyme
60 drops of lemongrass
60 drops of spearmint
In a large mixing bowl measure out 2 quarts of liquid brewer’s yeast and then add your essential oils. In a clean cement mixer pour the yeast/EO mixture. Turn on the mixture and begin to add the sugar. Continue to mix until well mixed and with a consistency of thick mushy mashed potatoes.

Liquid Feed –

1 Quart of Water
1 Quart of Sugar
16 drops of thyme oil
30 drops of lemongrass oil
30 drops of spearmint oil
2 teaspoons of Soy Lecithin Granules

In a mixing bowl or similar item add one quart of hot but not boiling water. Mix in 2 teaspoons of Lecithin granules. Mix with a beater or till all of the granules are dissolved. Add your thyme, lemongrass and spearmint oils and again mix with the beater. Measure out one quart of sugar and pour it in your hot water/oil mix and stir well.
I mix this up two quarts at a time and double the amounts. I then pour it in a 5 gallon bucket and repeat until I have four gallons of liquid feed in the 5 gallon bucket. (At this point you will have mixed 2 gallons of water to 2 gallons of sugar) I then use a “mud” mixer on an electric drill and mix it all very well in the 5 gallon bucket. Put a lid on and it’s ready to go out to your hives. I have a bucket with a small spigot on it that I pour the contents into in the field and then I can control filling my feeders. You can also dip, but if your bees are out they will find it (and you).

Matt Beekman
04-02-2009, 10:15 AM
"liquid brewer’s yeast"

You have lost me. Are you using spent yeast from a brewery? In your cement mixer formula, how many total pounds of patties mix do you get? I think if I get this number I can reformulate the recipe. Thanks for your help! I appreciate the info.

alpha6
04-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Matt. Yes I get my brewers yeast from a local pub. You have to de-activate the yeast, so if you go this route give me a call. You can also use dry brewers yeast and add water but since I have a good source of "wet" brewers yeast I have yet to try it, though I suspect the liquid measurements would be between two and three quarts, adding the water once all the dry mix is is mixed really well.

I haven't measured the weight of the finished product, but I can usually get around 60 patties from the mix. I figure my cost per pattie to be around .36 ea.

Matt Beekman
04-02-2009, 05:31 PM
I haven't measured the weight of the finished product, but I can usually get around 60 patties from the mix.

Each patty is about a pound?

alpha6
04-02-2009, 05:39 PM
Probably right around it. I haven't weighed it out. I usually just dish it out with one of those big army serving spoons out of the 5 gallon buckets onto the top bars, but I figure its around a pound. I can tell you this it is more then those girlie Calf. patties I pulled out of my hives. :D

The next time I make them up (this weekend) I will take pics and post them on my flicker account.

hummingberd
04-02-2009, 07:03 PM
Alpha6

thanks for your recipes! I only have 4 hives to work with so I don't think I need such a big recipe, but I'll figure out the numbers to make it more manageable.

As far as using the brewers yeast, I'll probably get the dry. How much water do I add to it to make it liquid?

Also, do you have problems with the Essentials oils not mixing well with the liquid brewers yeast? I would think you'd need to use the lecethin in the patty recipe as well as the syrup recipe?

Thanks!

chillardbee
04-02-2009, 09:58 PM
After reading the research results from the WVU on mite control with EO's, I noticed the date, that from the time that had been updated in 1996, that it wasn't long after that when I had started using EO's in my hives (1998). I first hear about Anise oil being used as an appetite stimulant in pollen substitute patties, so tried this and the results were pretty good. for several years before we used anise oil the bees would take the patties down rather slowly (1lb every 1 1/2 - 2 weeks) but with the anise oil added they would consume it with in the week.

During this time I was already studying EO's as alternative health care and learning about the properties of the various EO's and at some point it dawned on me that I might be able to use some of these oils to control mites. Some of my own conclusions at the time, are overwelmingly similar to that concluded by WVU.

I have administered EO's in almost any way that you could administer them to a hive but have come to use a sugar syrup spray and a feed consisting of pollen dissolved in syrup for adminstering EO's to my hives. I have used Neem, tea tree, cedar, patcholi, lemon, lemon grass, spearmint, peppermint, rosemary, eucalyptus, winter green, thyme, anise, and fennel oils, by them selves or in different combinations for the treatment that was appropriate at the time.

Tea tree is anti fungal, anti septic, and anti bacteriac. I have found that this oil works good at bringing chalk brood level down in a hive to point that the bees can manage and finally recover from.

Neem was siad to be effective against 250 different kind of mites and though there has been incoclusive research done on this in regards as a mite control I still feel that, if administered the right way, is still effective against the mites.

I use peppermint, rosemary, eucalyptus, and winter green together in a sugar spray in the spring and in the fall and has been a staple treatment for my hives for the last 10 years.

I have for the last 2 years been using spearmint, lemon grass, and thyme oil as my own type of version of HBH. what i like about adding this to syrup is that not only does it act like a stimulant on their appatite, but will also ack as a preserative should the bees not eat it fast enough, I've had suryp stay good for two months in weaker colonies using this.

For my spray I use a 1:1 suryp in a 5 gallon pail, 2 pounds OF MY OWN TRUSTED HONEY as an emulsifier, and no more then 2 ounces of EO's total unless Neem oil is used, it seems that only 1 ounce of neem ever wants to become a part of the solution even with an emulsifier though i have not tried anything other then honey.

I've used the grease patties for quite some years but noticed that unless they are used before sept (at least around these parts) that the bees seem to ignore it so it remains through the winter and seem to do more harm then good. I've noticed high incedents of nosema among hives that had a remainder of the patty in their hive still by spring. do not add neem oil to the patties and save yourself the grief, the bees just don't want anything to do with it.

I have been using a solution of honey, pollen, syrup mix for the past 4 years which seems to make sense, my recipe has been a 2 liter scoop of pollen disolved in 4 liters of hot water, 2 liters of honey mixed with 2 liters of hot water, I then combine the 2 mixs and add 15 kilos of sugar at which point you add the EO's, I usually would add a drop for every kilo so for this recipe I add 30 drops. using a 30 kilo pail and once everything above is mixed I top it off with warm water and mix. This mix stimulates the brood food glands and and besides getting the EO's to where they will be most effective it also provides high nutrition to the bees almost immediatly. the 30 kilo solution treats roughly 100 hives with 250ML dose which I use on hives with 5 frames of bees to a full super of bees. double hives full of bees through out can be given a liter.

These have been my own findings and methods I use but it still is just another part of my IPM. I still continue to use formic and oxalic acid in my hives along with bees that are hybrids of carni-russian-vsh. If you do decide to try the above, do so on your own volition and I will not be held responsible for any successes or failures.

Axtmann
04-02-2009, 11:46 PM
When you have your breakfast I bet there is a laxative, an aspirin, a sleeping and a painkiller pill in your coffee.

KSbee
04-03-2009, 07:21 AM
I then pour it in a 5 gallon bucket and repeat until I have four gallons of liquid feed in the 5 gallon bucket. (At this point you will have mixed 2 gallons of water to 2 gallons of sugar) I then use a “mud” mixer on an electric drill and mix it all very well in the 5 gallon bucket. Put a lid on and it’s ready to go out to your hives. I have a bucket with a small spigot on it that I pour the contents into in the field and then I can control filling my feeders. You can also dip, but if your bees are out they will find it (and you).
alpha- Thanks for taking time to post your recipes. My concern with the syrup recipe is it seems to make a minimal amount for commercial requirements. How much of the syrup mixture do you feed each hive? At a gallon/hive you would be spending a lot of time at the stove.

chillardbee
04-03-2009, 09:23 AM
wanted to delet this post but no delet button.

ClintonTull
04-03-2009, 09:48 AM
Alpha i was wondering where this was thanks for posting!:thumbsup:

alpha6
04-03-2009, 03:03 PM
alpha- Thanks for taking time to post your recipes. My concern with the syrup recipe is it seems to make a minimal amount for commercial requirements. How much of the syrup mixture do you feed each hive? At a gallon/hive you would be spending a lot of time at the stove.

I feed a quart in the spring and one in the fall. I feed 1:1 to my nucs in the spring but without the thyme in it, as much as they will take till they get built up. With the liquid you won't need to spend anytime at the stove. The hot water from your tap should be hot enough to dissolve the sugar fine.

alpha6
04-03-2009, 03:57 PM
Alpha6

thanks for your recipes! I only have 4 hives to work with so I don't think I need such a big recipe, but I'll figure out the numbers to make it more manageable.

As far as using the brewers yeast, I'll probably get the dry. How much water do I add to it to make it liquid?

Also, do you have problems with the Essentials oils not mixing well with the liquid brewers yeast? I would think you'd need to use the lecethin in the patty recipe as well as the syrup recipe?

Thanks!

I would mix the dry brewers yeast and the sugar together then slowly add warm/hot water to the mix to get the right consistency. I would then add the EO's and mix really well. I haven't had any problem with the EO's mixing in my patties and haven't had to use lecethin in this mix.

alpha6
04-05-2009, 06:26 PM
for those who like to see how the patties are made up.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

odfrank
04-05-2009, 06:32 PM
When you have your breakfast I bet there is a laxative, an aspirin, a sleeping and a painkiller pill in your coffee.

The crap people on this board feed their bees is shameful. It's really wacked out.

Hambone
04-06-2009, 03:03 PM
I feed a quart in the spring and one in the fall. I feed 1:1 to my nucs in the spring but without the thyme in it, as much as they will take till they get built up. With the liquid you won't need to spend anytime at the stove. The hot water from your tap should be hot enough to dissolve the sugar fine.

Why do you leave the thyme out in the spring feed.

alpha6
04-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Derek I do feed the first quart with thymol. But subsequent feedings I don't and here is why. Even though technically the mites will not build up a resistence to EO's which include thymol, I don't want to give them any ground to do so. The lemongrass and spearmint will strengthen the bees making them better in the long run and if mites should appear I will then hit it with the thymol.

I will say the things I do are an on going experiment towards getting the bees in the best, strongest condition and I am constantly tweaking the system as I learn more and see what works and what doesn't. Consider what I pass on as a guild line and take what works for your bees and disregard the rest.

Still great to ask questions...gets me to re-think how I do things also.

Hambone
04-06-2009, 09:17 PM
Thanks Alpha.

alpha6
04-07-2009, 08:31 PM
Hey guys. I have been experimenting with my liquid formula and found that the bees seem to take the 1:1 with a lesser amount of EO's then my original formula. I have modified it as follows.

2 Quarts of Water
2 Quarts of Sugar
12 drops of thyme oil
28 drops of lemongrass oil
28 drops of spearmint oil
3 teaspoons of Soy Lecithin Granules

Like I said I noticed that with this formula the bees took to about twice as fast as the old one (may have been too strong taste and smell wise) and given sugar water with EO's or plain about 98% of the bees went for the sugar water with the EO's. (I suspect the other couple that went to the plain sugar water just couldn't get a place on the feeder.)

Hope this helps. I will let you guys know if there are any further developments. (The pattie mixes are being consumed with no problems and bees are all over them.)

Blitzz
10-05-2009, 11:20 PM
Has anyone tried using xanthan gum instead of lecithin as the emulsifier?

Bud Dingler
10-06-2009, 03:00 PM
The crap people on this board feed their bees is shameful. It's really wacked out.

What's amusing is that there is zero for much science behind all of this EO use in supplemental feeding.

I call it feel good beekeeping. Beekeepers feel better if they are giving their bees something.

I have gotten to the point I hardly even feed syrup before winter in most of my hives even here in Wisco. They get no treatments and no antibiotics either. Think of all the extra time and money I have saved not pursuing this nonsense.

The one place I use inputs is in queen rearing. Feed fumdil to all of the colonies used in queen rearing. I also use some pollen sub for starter hives but thats it for me. Its just money down the road feeding all of that crap. Wild bees never had that stuff.

Stick with the basics and develop a management style that minimizes inputs.

Axtmann
10-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Bud Dingler your 100% right.

IMO a BEEKEEPER would never put all that junk in his hives. I bet, if someone comes up with a recipe mixture of mustard, flour, peanut butter and valerian drops, lots of people would feed it too.

jean-marc
10-06-2009, 06:44 PM
So Axtmann how many drops of valerian in your recipe?

Jean-Marc

brooksbeefarm
10-08-2009, 11:03 AM
I'll have to say that i tried Alpha6's patties,spray and feed on some of my hives and they are almost if not mite free and stronger than my other hives These are ES oils not hard chemicals the bees will work the flowers of thyme,spearment and lemongrass if they have access to them. Wish i had treated all of them now, the ones that wasn't treated will have to be fed. Jack

alpha6
10-08-2009, 11:53 AM
Thanks brooksbeefarm and glad it is working out for you. Slowly people are starting to see results from working their hives without chemicals and I think that it's not only great for the beeks but also to the heath of your bees.

I was talking to a guy yesterday that applied hivastan to his hives in the spring (he is running about 400). He got one of the worst crops ever and his bees just never built up and he couldn't figure out why. Samples of bees he sent to Penn State revealed nothing (though they just checked for mites, EFB and AFB) I suggested to him to try EO's next spring and lay off the hivastan and Mavrick...we will see. With light hives and bees that didn't fare well over the summer....I wish him the best going into winter.

BarbieandKen
10-21-2009, 02:03 PM
Is it ok to use the EOs in grease patties? It looks like Alpha's patti recipe is not a grease patty recipe....And do people add the grease patti now if, like me, they are in the cold area of the US? thanks, B-

Oberlinmom
10-21-2009, 03:33 PM
I'm probably the only person that doesn't know this.....what is the difference between "essential oils" and just oil or extracts? :s

Bens-Bees
10-22-2009, 03:54 AM
You're not the only person. I would like to know the difference as well.

dragonfly
10-22-2009, 05:01 AM
The Wiki definition of essential oils:



An essential oil is a concentrated, hydrophobic (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Hydrophobic) liquid (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Liquid) containing volatile aroma compounds (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Aroma_compound) from plants (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Plant). Essential oils are also known as volatile or ethereal oils, or simply as the "oil of" the plant from which they were extracted, such as oil of clove. An oil (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Oil) is "essential" in the sense that it carries a distinctive scent, or essence, of the plant. Essential oils do not as a group need to have any specific chemical properties in common, beyond conveying characteristic fragrances. They are not to be confused with essential fatty acids (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid).
Essential oils are generally extracted by distillation (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Distillation). Other processes include expression, or solvent extraction (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Solvent_extraction). They are used in perfumes (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Perfumes), cosmetics (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Cosmetics) and bath products, for flavoring (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Flavoring) food and drink, and for scenting incense (https://www.beesource.com/wiki/Incense) and household cleaning products.

Nick Noyes
01-21-2010, 11:31 AM
Has anyone broke Alphas Syrup recipe into larger quantities (teaspoons or cups instead of drops)?

Hambone
01-21-2010, 07:51 PM
Nick. What I have witten down is 15 drops ='s 1/4 tsp.

Nick Noyes
01-23-2010, 09:19 AM
Thanks
I will convert it up.

Shelleyanne
02-25-2014, 11:57 PM
I know this is an old discussion but I was just wondering if there were any further changes Alpha6 to your recipe and also if it can be alternated with tea tree oil to ensure no resistance to thyme and if so at what proportions.
I would also love to know how its been working for you over the last few years.

McBee7
02-27-2014, 10:53 AM
Thanks Shellyanne for bringing this thread forward-Thanks also to Alpha for the info--
I was wondering how this recipe compared to Mann Lakes "Pro Health" feeding stimulant
with essential oils??
The ingredients are nearly the same "sucrose,water,spearmint oil,lemongrass oil, thymol,
lecthin" Is one stronger than the other?
Pro-Health is a concentrate, and it gives mixing direction on the bottle for mixing into 1/1
syrup mix, just wondered if anyone can give a comparison... thanks

==McBee7==

BeeCurious
02-27-2014, 11:49 AM
I know this is an old discussion but I was just wondering if there were any further changes Alpha6 to your recipe and also if it can be alternated with tea tree oil to ensure no resistance to thyme and if so at what proportions.
I would also love to know how its been working for you over the last few years.


Thanks Shellyanne for bringing this thread forward-Thanks also to Alpha for the info--
I was wondering how this recipe compared to Mann Lakes "Pro Health" feeding stimulant
with essential oils??
The ingredients are nearly the same "sucrose,water,spearmint oil,lemongrass oil, thymol,
lecthin" Is one stronger than the other?
Pro-Health is a concentrate, and it gives mixing direction on the bottle for mixing into 1/1
syrup mix, just wondered if anyone can give a comparison... thanks

==McBee7==

I believe it has been determined that the recipe using "15 drops" is far too weak in oils to be compared to Honey-B-Healthy or Pro-Health. You might want to read this thread :

https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?275533-My-New-E-0-Recipe&highlight=Essential+oil+recipe

McBee7
02-27-2014, 08:01 PM
Thank you BeeCurious for the redirect and info....

==McBee7==

baldwinbees
03-01-2014, 06:11 AM
just curious....do you read these EO bottles to see if they are for consumption or aromatherapy....most are for the latter.....purity and ways of extraction are also contributing factors to mixing EO's....also we use EO's in our diet and wintergreen &eucoliptus are the 2 they say not to consume[their recommendation]

BeeCurious
03-01-2014, 06:37 AM
Lebermuth sells essential oils by the pound.


Many are not only flavorings, they're Kosher.

Rusty Hills Farm
03-01-2014, 10:16 AM
Word of caution to folks mixing EOs for the first time: DON'T DO IT IN THE KITCHEN (unless, of course, you actually want a divorce)! They stink and the smell lingers, especially the tea tree oil. And don't--whatever you do--spill any of it. (Do not ask how I know this! :eek: )

;)

Rusty

Hogback Honey
03-01-2014, 11:57 AM
Thanks Rusty, because that is EXACTLY what I had been planning on doing, now I wont.

cblakely
03-01-2014, 11:59 AM
Word of caution to folks mixing EOs for the first time: DON'T DO IT IN THE KITCHEN (unless, of course, you actually want a divorce)! They stink and the smell lingers, especially the tea tree oil. And don't--whatever you do--spill any of it. (Do not ask how I know this! :eek: )

;)

Rusty

My wife has a pretty sensitive nose (I don't) and I did do this in the kitchen. She complained for days. I try now to do it when she is not home so it has a chance to clear out. I actually like it.

I use to work for a company, who put tea tree oil in all of their products. They made us memorize the properties of the oil, one of which was "aromatic", that is polite speak for it stinks. I would occasionally visit the manufacturing plant and the smell would about knock you over. One of the others is "caustic" probably why you don't want to spill it. It makes some good cleaning products. A lady that I work with now uses one of their cleaning products, diluted down to spray ants, kills them quick. A couple of drops goes a long ways and I do use a couple in my eo formula.