Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:45:37 -0700
From: Andy Nachbar <andy.nachbaur@calwest.net>
Subject: Re: European foulbrood in New Zealand?

At 11:28 PM 8/31/97 +1200, xxxx xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>The presence of European foulbrood in a country is not an matter of
>'opinion' - it simple testing for causative organism. However much
>conspiracy theory some might want to read into everything, New
>Zealand bees are tested regularly for the presence of EFB. The tests
>have always been negative.

I believe you xxxx, I also believe what your are saying is the "official"
position of your government, the NZ beekeeper organization, and a very convenient way to keep the importing of honeybees to a minimum just as AFB is a good excuse not to import honey or bee collected pollen from other countries. Some would see conspiracy, all I see is convenience...

I also believe that the beekeepers that I was speaking of who were here many years ago had no reason to lie about EFB in their bees in NZ as they had no reason to tell me they thought they had seen EFB in their bees as it was not a major issue now or them with me personally and at the time a few countries were still burning hives with EFB as well as AFB and for all I know may still be doing so. Some would say "poor beekeepers", I would say "poor regulations".

I don't know anything about the NZ beekeepers mentioned in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL but I would suggest that maybe NZ has a problem with NZ beekeepers not following the party line and speaking out of school, but I do believe that in the country of New Zealand their is officially no problems with EFB as the bees don't have it there so it is said, just as there is no problem with EFB in the USA, we have it, and have had it since it was first found here but it is not a problem, it must only be a problem in Europe. (E)-U-rope it out is American Foulbrood which is also not a problem in America, we have it, we burn it...or treat to keep from finding it.<G>

Why I like to rub it in...I personally don't believe there is a dime's difference between bees or beekeepers as a group and when one group tries to snow the other with "my bees", or "my honey" is better then the others I get interested very fast. I also feel sad for any bee industry that relies on their governments to tell them of the health of their bees or protecting the health of their bees. If the beekeepers in the United States did this we would all have got rid of our bees a long time ago as they all are going to die anyway or sting you or someone you love to death..according to government reports. Oh sure there are bad beekeepers, and bad bees, but those are the one's that no man from the government gets to look at anyway...and in a free market if your beekeeping, bees or honey are not up to competitive standards you soon are replaced, you can't hide behind your government or any label you put on your bees or honey. Not to say NZ hides behind their bee laws anymore then Hawaii would have liked to hide behind theirs.

Like some say in Hawaii, "God Save The Queens", and " "Cockup" the
Hawaiian's Bees" or was it queens? If our government was as informed as your's I really doubt any problem would exist with any bees landing in Hawaii no matter how safe who's government says it is. But then some say the bees from Hawaii are the healthiest in the world, you and I know better as we know from where they came, stack them white boxes high enough and from a distance they all look like privies, but then no matter how healthy they are if they would sting your pockets shut what good are they, but then we also know that is history now and not the way it is today.

>I don't quite follow that one, Andy. Are you still referring to NZ
>in this? NZ beekeepers have never said anything about our AFB
>coming from empty imported honey containers.

Oh, maybe that was the other NZ, you know the one where they talk funny and drink warm beer by the gallon, sorry all beekeepers and bee laws look the same to me. (That is the God's Truth!)

>And even if we did, how does that suddenly mean that we must also
>have EFB???

I don't know anything about any "suddenly", like since NZ bees were
suddenly allowed to land on Hawaii, as the experience I had with NZ
beekeepers coming over here and telling me personally they had EFB in NZ it was many years ago, but if the way bees get AFB is such a concern that all empty honey containers need be regulated why would the same empty containers not also carry EFB same as bee collected pollens?

ttul, your friend, Andy-
Los Banos, California

**BTW, The way you end a tread is to not reply to it.<G>

(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use.

(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.