I need to order additional wood frames and have bought Dadants in the past. They have always been exceptional quality. I was thinking about buying from Mann Lake though because they have the free shipping. How does the quality of their frame compare to Dadant? Thanks
Assuming you are talking about unassembled frames I would let price be the determining factor. The quality of both are excellent in the commercial grades that I am familiar with.
Very well said. I have the same veiw, everytime I go somewhere else when I know what works I seem to get burnt. I ordered a semi load of frames this spring I think 22,000, wouldn't change my supplier for nothing dadant been working for me for years.
Free this free that... there's nothing FREE. I want quality, I don't want some flyer every other week saying "new and improved the BEST on the market".
Quality is the same, but the size is a little different. I have Mann Lake medium plastic foundation and dadant medium frames. Foundation is a touch bigger. Not much of a deal I just buzz it off on the table saw.
It doesn't matter to me what what folks may say, I will always say that ML's frames are some of the best I have ever come across, and you can't go wrong or get burnt with them.
Ben, look up some old post here about ML woodenware, I posted pics, I got a thousand boxes with frames the stuff was so bad I got a renburst for the bad product after posting pics and making it a issue. The frames had a staple on the end bar going right down the grove of the top bar which bowed the wax insert. Try taking apart ten thousand frames & with a center pounce tapping the staple back into the wood groove. When I asked Stew about this all he said was a machine puts them together so when one is wrong there ALL wrong.... nice answer.
The top bar on the [ML] frame is a little thinner. I have less broken end bars with [ML] when i'm done assembling than I have with Dadant because the [ML] parts fit together easier. Also [ ML] uses pondarosa pine and I think Dadant uses white pine but I could be wrong on this. I have less blow outs with [ML] plastic than with Dadant also, [in my deeps only].
ML Frames are good quality. I did have one issue when i bought foundation, it was about 1/2cm too long and bowed a bit. Perhaps the grooves in the frames were a bit shallow also. Easy fix though, simply trimmed a little bit of the foundation off and fit like a charm. Of course, if I was doing 22,000 of them... and it was a frame issue I'd be upset.
Dadants frames come from Westernbee.com in Poulsen Mt. I find their budget grade is good enough for the girls I go out with and they are very reasonalby priced.
I did notice recently that the Dadant grooved bottom bars I had would not fit into the Mann Lake endbars. They were too fat, as the Mann Lake bottom bars are notched to fit.
I have had issue with the assembled frames sold by Mann Lake, only 1 staple down through the top bar so when you load a box with ten frames and later that season when they are drawn and you try and pry one out the top bar comes right off. It happened with only a handful but still annoying.
I believe Dadant went from a 3/8" thick bottom bar to a 1/2" thick bottom bar to ease automated assembly. I have always been pleased with their frame quality, but saw no reason to change the bottom bar after how many years, just to please their machine.
I think I will order a couple hundred and give them a try. Shipping alone from dadant was $50+ for 100 frames. It sounds like Mann lake builds an equally good product. Have to order up
I've used both Dadant and Mann Lake frames. I just bought 2400 Mann Lake frames, mainly because of the free shipping. Wished I had sucked it up and just paid for the shipping! Both make a good frame, however: Dadant frame is a tighter fit (maybe too tight). I've broken end bars installing the top bar. With Dadant frames I can put a staple in from the side through the end bar, into the top bar. You can't do that with a Mann Lake frame. The top bar is not as thick as the Dadant frame. I'm installing Pierco foundation into these frames. The Dadant top bar is just a little thicker and holds the foundation more securely. It just seems like the foundation is going to pop out of the Mann Lake frames. Like I said before, Both companies make a quality frame and I've used both in the past and I bought Mann Lake this time, BUT, all my future purchases will be Dadant frames.
We are in the final steps of assembling 8,000 new deep wood frames with both grooved top and bottom bars. Sick of the pre-assembled ones from both outfits being put together very poorly and prone to falling apart under the abuse I and the crew apply to them in hive work.
The new ones..... 5000 from Dadant and the other 3k from ML.
As I am close to both the shipping is not an issue. Dadant was at 66 cents and ML at 69 cents. With the bee bucks at ML my overall cost each way was just about equal +- .
Couple of observations:
ML top bars are thinner than Dadants. A minus but not much as I hardly ever see a frame crack in the center of the top bar. The new deeper groove in the Dadant bottom bar is also prone to collapse when we are stapling them. Lots of blow-ins from the lack of structure and lower quality wood on stapling . The quality of both the wood and the cuts are far superior in the ML frame with this purchase. Not even close. The wood shop guys in Minnesota produce a very nice clean cut with not even a bad piece of wood in the lot. The drop in angle cut design on top of the ML sidebars saves a couple of microseconds a frame also.
If we go back and build more this summer or next fall the folks at ML will have won the first chance at a repeat purchase at this point.
I buy Western Bee frames. The Budgets are just fine. Maybe 3 in 100 I have to treat special. I get them on a truck and they are way cheaper then 69c so price them out again.
Paid 66 cents at dadants in Chico. If you add in the gas or shipping doubt the commercials would be much less elsewhere.
As per getting budget frames. Back in 1980 the first 100 frames we ever bought "new" were budgets. After that "experience" I vowed to never make that mistake again. ( been kept if I might add and gladly so) Cheap equipment always costs you more in the long run....ASSEMBLY TIME, LOWER PRODUCT LIFE, LONGER TIME MANIPULATING EQUIPMENT.... Which is another subject sadly enough
Don, look up here in the arcives (sp) I posted pics of the boxes, I had bloodied hands trying to put that junk together. This was a couple years ago, I will NEVER buy there woodenware again.
Keith: I would sure second that ML has had some serious issues with their assembly but I don't have an issue with the quality of the unassembled frames I have seen. I do, however slightly prefer the style of the Dadant/Western frames. Dadant has been extremely good in their delivery prices in LTL shipments direct from Polson. They dropped me off 12 pallets of woodenware for around $300 dollars a year ago.
Jim, that year stills sticks with me, it's the gifts that keeps giving. lol
Yeah know Jim, I see "Honey 4 all" post #22 about Dadants frames in Chico.... funny thing he's lives about 10 minutes from ML in woodland, he's drives right by ML to go to Dandants.
That's awful looking woodenware. I sure hope they have improved the quality of there products. I wouldn't have been happy either if I would have purchased something like that
As Far as I know Keith is getting them from Shastina.
We have another 500 plus being delivered from there tomorrow.
Their cuts are superb. A plus .... the wood is a B+ in my opinion cause of the knots. Easy to assemble and very few "busts" while assembling.
The product speaks for itself which is a GIGANTIC difference from when they purchased the old John Miller facility.
They have improved the quality from an D- up to top grade over the years. Great to work with. Call you back and if you want a little custom stuff they are willing to give it a shot.
Am waiting with baited breath for when their frame production comes on line. I for one am willing to give them a shot once they are...
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