I've found this article just recently, and many facts surprised me.
For example:
"•76 percent of samples bought at groceries had all the pollen removed, These were stores like TOP Food, Safeway, Giant Eagle, QFC, Kroger, Metro Market, Harris Teeter, A&P, Stop & Shop and King Soopers.
•100 percent of the honey sampled from drugstores like Walgreens, Rite-Aid and CVS Pharmacy had no pollen.
•77 percent of the honey sampled from big box stores like Costco, Sam’s Club, Walmart, Target and H-E-B had the pollen filtered out.
•100 percent of the honey packaged in the small individual service portions from Smucker, McDonald’s and KFC had the pollen removed. "
Lets be real here, it's a shame that in order to sell honey on the grocery shelve, Wal-Mart,ect. that it has to be heated over 200F + to pasteurize it and pressurize it through filters before it is put in jars an sold.If you don't it will crystallize and not sell.(to the retailer or customer). Like any food that is cooked at high temps., most all(if not all) the nutrients are cooked out, Most everyone have heard or read that honey is a good nutritious food, not so after pasteurized, to me you might as well eat Karo syrup on your biscuit, you would be getting about the same food value. As for the allergy argument whether raw honey helps or not, until there are more studies done on if it does or doesn't help, i'm going with the people who claim it's the Only thing that has helped or cured them. To say pasteurized honey is still honey i agree, but it is what it is pasterurized. It's not real, raw, unchanged from the nutrients still intact, honey.To the person who wants what they paid for.
Yikes are we reaching a consensus? I'm not sure about the 200+ degree heating Brooks. I haven't heard of anything quite that harsh correct me if I'm wrong on that.
I know of a common practice called a "flash treatment" where as the honey is heated in an extremely controlled fashion to kill off any yeast or bacterial in the honey. And when I say controlled, its done by the book, to the second of exposure. Much the same way milk is pasteurized, to kill off the botulism.,
The way packers handle millions of pounds of honey, right from the beekeeper to the retail shelf is extremely interesting. It has it problems as does other food products but the ability for us to market that much honey to the entire consumer spectrum at such high standards is quite amazing
I was wronge on the 200+ temp. i looked it up,160F + 72 c is more common, from what i've read and heard anything over 120F or 72 c the food value in honey starts to diminish. It's supposed to kill bacteria and stop crystallization at this temp.?
I dont know about the retardation of granulation, filtering pollen out helps with that.
It does kill all bacteria with a flash heat treatment though, much the same as they do with milk
They are mostly targeting Botulism
Err...it takes 250F for a few minutes to kill botulism spores. I'm not sure there is any honey that is heated to that temp. There are other bacteria, yeasts, fungi, etc that are sometimes in honey, and honey is often pasteurized in order to kill any of these live organisms (some people with dietary restrictions can't eat honey that hasn't been pasteurized).
Pasteurizing honey is a very different thing than pasteurizing milk or other dairy products, and it’s done for very different reasons. Because of its low moisture content and high acidity, bacteria and other harmful organisms cannot live or reproduce in honey, so pasteurization is not done for that purpose. One of the few things that can live in honey is yeast, although if the moisture content is below 18% (as it normally is), the yeast cells cannot reproduce. All nectar (the source for all honey) contains osmophilic yeasts, which can reproduce in higher-moisture content honey and cause fermentation. While fermented honey does not necessarily pose any health risk, we try to discourage it, so Bee Maid pasteurizes its honey to kill any latent yeast cells that might be present and to remove any chance of fermentation.
Another side benefit of pasteurizing honey is that it will slow down the granulation process. Pasteurized honey will last longer in its liquid state than unpasteurized honey, which makes for a more appealing-looking product for both retailers and consumers.
We pasteurize our honey by a “flash heating” method, to minimize the amount of time that the honey is exposed to the heat and to reduce the risk of damaging or burning it. The honey is heated very quickly to about 160°F and then rapidly cooled, which will kill the yeast cells without damaging the product. This process is done on our production line during the packing procedure.
I recall someone saying botulism wasn't a problem in honey typically and that the study done was that Karo syrup was the culprit but the honey board never sought to correct the claim that all honey is tainted with botulism when in fact it isnt?
Ok, the title of the article and the thread are false and misleading. The "standard of identity for honey" is a work in progress, state by state and nation by nation. The statement made by the FDA about what "is or isn't honey" has not been finalized. The article itself said Food News Safety is waiting for the FDA to get back to them about what they consider honey as far as pollen content is concerned. It is inflammatory to degrade store shelf honey, containing little or no pollen, by claiming it's not real honey. There is no clear standard about honey and its pollen content. Save they claims of "not real honey" for the Syrups, and Sugars that everyone fights to keep off the shelf. Store shelf honey has been heated and filtered for generations. Very recent statements, which are ambiguous and incomplete, about things that are still a work in progress, should not be fraudulently used to indite an established industry.
Here is the history. First, the big beekeeping groups worked to implement a tariff on honey from some countries. To avoid the tariff some countries transshipped honey to make it look like like it originated from a country with no tariff. To catch the cheats we started testing the raw bulk honey for pollen to see where it actually came from. Once pollen testing started, the cheats invented Ultra Filtration. So the american beekeeping groups worked to stop "Ultra Filtered imported bulk honey" because it hid the country of origin to avoid the tariff. Now our hard work to stabilize the bulk honey market has been turned against us by some people looking for a Headline. The tools and words used to stop transshipments of bulk imported honey are being used against domestic honey on the store shelf. It's a sloppy application and no one has given clarification yet. Note the article itself says the FDA has not yet given any guidance or clarification.
Honey is a good sweetener, but I have yet to read or hear of much other nutritional value in it. The trace amounts of pollen may have some protein, I suppose, but at such low levels that nothing about it appears in nutritional information that I've seen. Other than calories from the sugars, what other nutritional value does honey have?
>>I recall someone saying botulism wasn't a problem in honey typically <<
JRG13 , ya I dont know the facts behind honey and botulism except that most all consumers link the two together. So I follow the same position ,...
I cant see how its any different than any other raw food,
People dont feed a new born baby garden carrots or beans
I think if you look at the history of bulk prices from the 90s until today you will see severe ups and downs early on followed by steady and rising prices. Ending today with $2.00 honey and diminished worries about exporting countries wrecking our momentum like they did early on in the fight. It is an ongoing battle. I encourage support of the AHPA and ABF with all their efforts.
I have just read Tia's remarks and I worry about the level of IQ,s of some of the participants. I for one pointed out the fact that bees feed on ragweed a wind blown pollen,a debate is taking place on this thread and some things can be learned from it. It is unbecoming that someone should try to label a persons position by blaming it on a political ideology,I begin to understand why the gentleman who did some research on FGMO no longer takes part in this forum
Johno
Everyone on these forums should keep a couple things in mind:
First, you might meet some of the people you debate/criticize/dismiss in these threads. Chances are, you will find those people to be far more reasonable than they may come across in this medium, given the limitations of communication in this format. You might find that you actually like some of them if you do meet them. All the members of Beesource that I've met face-to-face have been pleasant, likable people. Bearing that in mind while you type might make your responses a bit more temperate.
Secondly, the non-verbal components of communication are lost in a forum like this. What you interpret as a harsh response may not have been intended as harsh at all. Try to have a thick skin while reading others' responses, and don't take offense at every difference of opinion.
Having said that, I did look up the story in the initial post. I also found follow-up news stories from shortly after it appeared (back in 2011). The impression I got from those articles was very different than the general tone in this thread seems to be.
deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties,it is fat free,and cholesterol free. The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw Honey:thumbsup:Thanks for asking, i didn't know alot of it, and this is only some of the benefits of raw honey, over pasteurized honey. Why not label it for what it is.
deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties....The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw Honey:thumbsup:
OK....are these minerals and vitamins only in raw honey? "Abundant" isn't accurate. The table below is from Wikipedia...note that the percentages given are the percentage of the USDA recommnded daily intake....if one eats 3.5oz of honey a day (that's almost a quarter of a pound).
Calcium...1%
Copper...not even on the radar
Iron...3%
Magnesium....1%
Etc and so forth....nothing comes in at more than 3% of the USDA recommendations. How much honey are you planning to eat? How much nutrition do you expect to get out of it? Add the carbohydrates (82.4%) and water (17.1%), you get 99.5% of what is in honey. Everything else combined (including pollen) is .5% of the weight of honey.
For something like iron (which you mentioned specifically), you would have to eat 3000 grams (6.5lbs) pounds of honey to get a single days requirements. We have a customer that can eat 2lbs of honey in a day (no, we won't share him)....I've never seen anyone eat 6lbs in a day. Even water (which is at a very high concentration compared with any of these other substances,) is only 17ml in the quarter pound of honey...the recommended (by the Mayo clinic) amount of water for an adult male is 3L....so about 10lbs of honey to get your water for the day....good luck
Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Energy 1,272 kJ (304 kcal)
Carbohydrates 82.4 g
- Sugars 82.12 g
- Dietary fiber 0.2 g
Fat 0 g
Protein 0.3 g
Water 17.10 g
Riboflavin (vit. B2) 0.038 mg (3%)
Niacin (vit. B3) 0.121 mg (1%)
Pantothenic acid (B5) 0.068 mg (1%)
Vitamin B6 0.024 mg (2%)
Folate (vit. B9) 2 μg (1%)
Vitamin C 0.5 mg (1%)
Calcium 6 mg (1%)
Iron 0.42 mg (3%)
Magnesium 2 mg (1%)
Phosphorus 4 mg (1%)
Potassium 52 mg (1%)
Sodium 4 mg (0%)
Zinc 0.22 mg (2%)
Shown is for 100 g, roughly 5 tbsp.
Percentages are relative to
US recommendations for adults.
Source: USDA Nutrient Database
Boris I wish you would quit doing that. Please quit slagging my honey.
HACCP, is a third party auditing certification process which provides food related industries a standard to work under. Its the same as the US HACCP program I believe. CFIA is a function of our government which imposes strict standards of food related industries and such.
I doubt any consumer would object to our honey processing plant being certified by HACCP, AND have the honey supplied to them be from beekeeping operations registered with CFIA
deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties,it is fat free,and cholesterol free. The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus ,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw HoneyThanks for asking, i didn't know alot of it, and this is only some of the benefits of raw honey, over pasteurized honey. Why not label it for what it is. -brooksbeefarm
Maybe deknow asked, too, but I asked about nutritional values. What sorts of levels of these are found in honey? Standard nutritional labels for honey list sodium as 0% RDA, and 0 grams in one serving. I'd like to see the numbers if they're available.
I think it's worth noting that calcium and sodium and iron and copper and phosphorus and the other metals listed aren't likely to be affected by pasteurization.
...and get accused of being a Republican???? Not a chance!
Oh great, now Dean has spilled the beans on the dirty little secret about nutrition and honey, and don't forget the part about promoting tooth decay. Here's what I like about honey, particularly fresh unprocessed honey. IT TASTES GOOD!!!! Now go brush your teeth.
Boris - I am very anxious to see the lab results on BeeMaid honey. If indeed it is not legally honey,then we have been legally injured.
Whose lab will you use? What test procedures? In what jurisdiction are you going to apply a legal definition? Will you be sampling more than one specimen? Have you created a legal trail of control over the specimen to verify that it is indeed as packed by BeeMaid, and not adulterated at a later date by anyone?
If you need help choosing a lab, let me know, my honey gets tested annually for ISCIRA.
deKnow, yes that is the nutritional value of the honey that they tested, that could change with different forages. That was Raw Honey. Did you read that heating (pasteurizing) honey up to 37 C or 99F causes loss of nearly 200 components, some of which are antibacterial. Heating up to 40 C or104 F destroys invertase an important enzyme. The food value of raw honey Vs pasteurized honey doesn't even come close. it's sweet syrup.
Yes it will....but not much. If the sugar and the water is 99.5% of what is in honey, that doesn't leave a whole lotta room for nutrition.
That was Raw Honey. Did you read that heating (pasteurizing) honey up to 37 C or 99F causes loss of nearly 200 components, some of which are antibacterial. Heating up to 40 C or104 F destroys invertase an important enzyme.
The nice thing about Wikipedia is that they tell you what their source is....and they tell you when they don't have a source. Guess what the source is for both of those claims? [Citation Needed]. It doesn't even pass the smell test to claim "the loss of nearly 200 components". The evaporation? The denaturing? The metabolizing? What is a component? A chemical compound? A vitamin? A mineral? An amino acid? Can anyone name 200 components in honey?
The other problem is if you look at the Wikipedia entry for invertase, it says it works best at 60C....20 degrees celcius higher than it takes to destroy invertase if it is honey?
The food value of raw honey Vs pasteurized honey doesn't even come close. it's sweet syrup.
I certainly prefer raw honey....but what is the food value of raw honey? Would you eat 10lbs of anything because it contained less than an ounce of "food value"?
My party affiliation used to revolve around bon fires.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Beesource Beekeeping Forums
1.8M posts
54.7K members
Since 1999
A forum community dedicated to beekeeping, bee owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, honey production, health, behavior, hives, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!