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Genetic Diversity: What Would Brother Adam Do... Today?

29K views 96 replies 24 participants last post by  squarepeg 
#1 ·
I have been reading about how Brother Adam traveled the world over years, identifying different races of bees, and returning to his home apiary with queens of these different races or strains in order to add them to his breeding program. Then I was also listening to a discussion about the importance of genetic diversity to the strength and vitality of the bees.

And I thought, how would one feasibly go about creating the widest genetic diversity in one's operation today?

To travel around and get permits and to gain access to the so many regions and bring back queens to one place as Brother Adam did would be nearly impossible today. It would certainly be cost prohibitive for most. Plus there's political upheaval and violence in a number of places... And now we have the work of Brother Adam to reference, so there's no need to try and 're-do' what he did.

But there might be value in genetic diversity - to a point. I don't think you'd want to get into such wild variations that you'd be a danger, or major pest to people around you, or to other beekeepers.

So, how would a person create the most genetically diverse - yet commercially viable - stock in a single operation today?

I've read that just a small number of breeders supply most of the world's queens, so what would be the best a regular beekeeper could do?

Adam
 
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#8 ·
Not to be a downer, but that's how we got AHB too... Would it be too simplistic to... buy queens from as many sources as possible w/in the US? As many different strains as possible.
Good point, which is why I imagine one would have to connect with a variety of professional breeders, who would have proper management/inspections, etc.

Buying queens from as many US sources as possible would not be too simplistic at all - particularly like myself, who aren't living in the United States. So that would already be a challenge - but doable, and likely the first step. One can also, more easily get drone semen or queen cells, as these are less prone to carry pests and disease.

So is there an efficient way of getting the best sense of which breeders would provide the widest diversity? I guess you would have to contact them and try to get a sense of their background - where their bees came from?


Adam
 
#3 ·
I have the opportunity to travel extensively, as Bro. Adam did. I just cannot get through U.S. customs. They even have detector dogs in Florida that can find anything living.
There are import restrictions to prevent unwanted species as sqk mentioned or diseases coming in. The queens that were brought to S.A. are supposedly not the same African bees as had been originally selected. There are actually 12 known African species.
All the diseases are here already so only new parasites and unwanted species are left to come in.
 
#5 ·
genetic diversity has been shown to be important, in the context of having the opportunity to find and develop resistant traits by selective breeding. does that mean the more diversity the better?

the extreme case here would be to go around the world and collect enough queens from different lines of bees so that every colony in your apiary was unique genetically.

for me, the problem is, that you might lose the adaptations that have been made to your specific location. i.e. would bees from hawaii, that have never experienced seasonal changes, have the ability to brood up and brood down in anticipation of the changes in temperature and forage availibilty in alabama?

it's the opposite extreme to the one i put forward in the 'reducing the gene pool?' thread, whereby all the colonies in that hypothetical apiary were derived from one queen.

in practice, and what i assume most are doing, and what i will strive to do, is find an appropriate balance between the two extremes.

(i think the same argument could be made for 'treatments', hard to make the case for either 'extreme')
 
#7 ·
I think it is possible to change your bees by simply buying queens from different suppliers here in the USA. The key to it working would be another question.

Are you prepared to let your bees die out?

If you are to do this then it means that you must let those resulting bees(what you get from the cross breeding) with the lower level of "survivor" traits die off so those with the better "survivor" traits continue to breed. This is the process of natural selection that has already been set in motion for us. Our problem is we spend a great deal of effort trying to keep alive all our bees. We focus our attention on pulling those weak hives through rather than letting them die and focus our attention of propagating new hives from our survivors.

I think we need to be looking at bringing in a few new queens into our area and using them as "Drone Mothers". Then we can breed our own queens in natural matings letting those drones add their traits to the next generation of queens. By this process we increase the bee bio-diversity and also hopefully add those traits to the feral hives that live among us.

I believe that this is what several are looking at trying to do to bring/increase hygienic behaviour into their survivors that are already adapted to their areas.
 
#12 ·
...Why wouldn't u simply purchase queens of different strain from different suppliers across Canada and other countries u are allowed to import from?
I would. Sounds like a logical idea. Then the question would be how to achieve the widest diversity through the fewest breeders. You don't want to overlap too much by getting stock from people who are sourcing their own from the same place.

I heard somewhere that something like 10 or 11 breeders supply most of the world's queens. Is that right?

Adam
 
#15 ·
I think that makes sense. And I guess that's partly why I ask the question. I don't think we really have an "indigenous" bee here in Nova Scotia, but after having a closed border and importing 99% of our bees from one or two sources for many years, I feel that the diversity has to have suffered to some extent. Couple that with the fact that 3/4 or more of the total colonies are managed by a single operation.

So, as I consider a way forward, I wonder if it might be best to start by obtaining a number of queens from the widest variety of sources that I can, and to go from there. Not necessarily to get a huge number from all over the world, but to do my best to reach for a wide variety.

The OP just stemmed from that line of thinking, and I thought of Brother Adam and wondered how would you get the WIDEST range of viable stock if you were really as focused as he was - while staying within the confines of present day issues and realities.

Adam
 
#16 ·
>>I don't think we really have an "indigenous" bee here in Nova Scotia

or anywhere else in the western hemisphere.

>>but after having a closed border and importing 99% of our bees from one or two sources for many years, I feel that the diversity has to have suffered to some extent.

heck yeah adam, especially if the sources didn't incorporate a mix of genetics in their operation.

sounds like you are on the right track. is your border still closed? any chance of cutting out feral survivors or placing swarm traps in the wild?
 
#18 ·
The current trend towards unlimited diversity is greatly flawed.
Brother Adam was not trying to 'ncrease diversity...if he were, than any stock would have been as desirable as any other. He was looking to 'ncorporate specific traits, and searched out specific lines that exhibited the traits he was after.

Deknow
 
#20 · (Edited)
So instead of seeking out so much genetic diversity, we should find bees that do what we need them to and maintain them?
This doesn't continue the genetic diversity lather a lot of people continue to think is useful.
Genetic diversity might be obsolete. Does anybody predict any new diseases or pests coming, except bees with genetic diversity
that we don't want? (AHB ie.)
 
#30 ·
#22 ·
So instead of seeking out so much genetic diversity, we should find bees that do what we need them to and maintain them?
There is no advantage to bringing in bees from diverse regions where they are native unless you are prepared to do the breeding work that Brother Adam did with his bees. In other words, there is NO advantage to diversity just for diversity's sake. You might even be going backwards by importing bees that are so seriously un-adapted that they can't produce their own honey and would have to be fed to maintain them. There is also the risk of importing undesirable traits such as AHB, cape bees, etc.

If you want bees that are adapted to NS, then you would only want to bring in bees from areas with similar climates. This would limit you to extreme northern Europe and perhaps part of Asia. Unfortunately that would leave out some of the most interesting bees with the most unique traits. Here is a listing of the recognized geographic species of Apis Mellifera.

North-west of Europe
A. m. iberica
A. m. intermissa
A. m. lihzeni
A. m. mellifera
A. m. sahariensis * note that this one is listed twice.

South-west of Europe
A. m. carnica
A. m. cecropia
A. m. ligustica
A. m. macedonica
A.m. ruttneri
A. m. sicula

Middle East
A. m. adamii
A. m. anatoliaca
A. m. armeniaca
A. m. caucasica
A. m. cypria
A. m. meda
A. m. pomonella

Africa
A. m. adansonii
A. m. capensis
A. m. intermissa
A. m. lamarckii
A. m. litorea
A. m. major
A. m. monticola
A. m. sahariensis
A. m. scutellata
A. m. unicolor
A. m. jemenitica

Of the above, I know of three that could be of significant interest here in North America. They are A. M. Lamarckii, A. M. Sahariensis, and A. M. Monticola. Guess what? These are all African races! So why would they be interesting? Lamarckii is the Egyptian bee and carries the unique trait of NOT collecting propolis. Sahariensis carries a trait of extreme thrift to the point of producing very little drone comb. Monticola seems to have some unique cold temperature adaptations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_(genus)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera
 
#25 ·
Adam, can you get bees from Hawaii? Big Island Queens is selling VSH queens there, that they got from Glenn Apiaries.
I remember reading how Allen Dick got queens from Hawaii. My impression from what I remember from earlier posts of
yours is your frustration with treating for mites. This should help. Get some Ferguson Buckfasts, some VSH from Hawaii and
start raising your own bees for your area. Also, (insert shameless Weaver plug here) I heard Beeweaver is still working with
a company out there in HI. If you're happy with your Chevy. You don't need a Chevy/Ford/Dodge. They're already produced.
You just have to figure out how to get them.
 
#26 ·
VSH is not the right approach. This is especially true if you are not going to evaluate/select for VSH. I hear from very very few beekeepers who actually evaluate for VSH.

Deknow
 
#28 ·
I thought Adam was trying to be treatment-free. Evaluate by having bees that live treatment-free. My logic is. Buckfasts do well
in cold, wet parts of Europe and Canada. It should do well in NS. VSH trait is inheritable. Both "breeds" should do okay through a
NS summer, long enough to get queens raised and everything requeened before winter. Evaluate in the spring of 2014. Binford
and Danny Weaver have already proven that VSH is inheritable into the Buckfast line. Why can't Adam work on his own version
of Beeweavers that will do well where he's at? Since he can't import a bee that's already being produced that would work for him.
 
#29 ·
...you are talking about VSH as it it were brown eyes.....this is a gross misunderstanding of the entire concept of VSH, HYG, and hygienic behavior in general.
These behaviors exist in all populations...the 'trait' is really just an evaluation of where on the continuum a particular hive scores. It is also well understood (and has been demonstrated in both the lab and with independent breeders) that a line that scores highest in hygienec tests pull most of the brood, not just those hosting varroa.
Read Marla's documentation wrt Minnesota hygienic program.....without constant selection for the hyg trait, it dilutes in the population (meaning that if you are not testing and selecting for it disappears).
Most importantly, naturally surviving populations of bees (even AHB ) don't score especially high on these kinds of tests...so they are using other (proven successful) methods to survive the mites.

Deknow
 
#35 ·
Just tying to figure out a way someone could create through using a hybrid, a mite resistant bee from what is able to be imported
to NS. The idea is to make a hybrid then breed from the survivors. If the resistant trait doesn't transfer, there won't be survivors.
I'm not talking about a whole complicated progam with nitrogen tests and counting percentages of pulled brood etc. Just find
an improvement and then breed from the best at hand and go from there. The bees that the II breeders use have a very high
score when tested for VSH trait. When bred to a non-VSH bee the trait does get thinned down, but can still be carried enough
to make bees that can make healthy colonies and effectively hold their own against mites.
 
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