Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

Africanized Bees - Are they really that bad?

70K views 203 replies 61 participants last post by  Michael Bush 
#1 ·
Has anyone had any actual experience with them?
I know that the media will basically prey on people's fears at times so I'm sure that Africanized Bees are overexaggerated in some ways.

I've always had an intense phobia basically regarding these bees :eek:

I adore bees and have always been fascinated by them. They have an extremely important role in our environment which is why I really wish to learn more about Africanized Bees and to understand them more which will hopefully lessen my fear of them.
 
#77 ·
I will just echo the early posts on this thread and the post from Tomas. AHB really are that bad. I have kept bees here in Los Angeles for about 5 years starting with a wild swarm. My hives were always hot, but manageable. This year all my hives turned into full AHB behavior. As they built up in the spring they got progressively more aggressive. They stung the neighbors, stung the postman, stung my wife, and of course stung me. When I would be working outside, the bees would tap you once. Second "tap" was a sting around your eyes - and they were really fast! I had to move my hives out to a remote location and requeen them. I had to destroy some too. When I managed those AHB hives they would behave as Tomas described. You had to be slow and deliberate, and even with a lot of smoke they would be crazy. Even after I went back into the house they would continue to bang on the kitchen window for an hour trying to attack me through the glass. Bottom line is that urban beekeepers cannot keep full AHB colonies. It is just too much hassle and too dangerous for the neighbors. Most all the swarms showing up this year are fully aggressive AHB as well.

You don't need a DNA test to know if you have AHB. If you aren't sure, then they are not AHB. Maybe some suspect hives may contain bees from an EHB mother and AHB drones. But, if you have full AHB bees you would know it. No doubt!

My sense is that agribusiness will continue to use AHB, but sideline and hobby beekeepers will need to get mated queens from suppliers that do not have the aggressive AHB attributes. Queen producers in the south will need to go to artificially inseminated queens like Glenn Apiaries does.
 
#78 ·
Agree in general. But with a fast test you could at least have some logical guide so that destroying swams does not get to be the norm. Everyone just expects that a feral swarm is exhibiting killer bee behavior.. KILL THEM! Even beeks on this group who should know better show that attitude. Also, they are not always so hyper agressive. Temp, altitude, humidity, food situation, etc all enter into it.
 
#79 ·
Ran across some interesting information from this site here:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archiv...4/bees0304.htm

This is an interesting quote from this study which I would like to delve into here:
"Many experts expected that the farther from a tropical climate AHBs spread, the more they would interbreed with EHBs. But it appears that interbreeding is a transient condition in the United States, according to ARS entomologist Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman. She is research leader at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, Arizona, and ARS national coordinator for AHB research."

My understanding of this 'transient' condition of inbreeding with ehb is that eventually ahb will eventually displace the ehb in areas where the ahb are established if proper management techniques are not implemented. Apparently there is a false belief that ehb will somehow reduce the aggressiveness of ahb, but this appears to not be the case, as this will only happen on a transient basis. However, there is a saving grace to this, that being that since the ahb do not cluster, the further north they go, the harder time they will have in establishing feral populations. Let's discuss this issue a little if we could.
 
#80 ·
My understanding of this 'transient' condition of inbreeding with ehb is that eventually ahb will eventually displace the ehb in areas where the ahb are established if proper management techniques are not implemented. Apparently there is a false belief that ehb will somehow reduce the aggressiveness of ahb, but this appears to not be the case, as this will only happen on a transient basis.
Hello, Dan. If this is true than Texas is still in a transient status. I catch feral bees in my area that are definitely not AHB. I also catch bees that are black and of German descent but much more agressive. I think that many of these are confused with AHB. I've also caught a few hot bees but I managed them and they're not hot anymore. (My management technique is to destroy the queen and let them raise a new one.) They may have been AHB or descendents of some bees that I had back in the 90s that originally came from Alabama. The bees from Alabama were the hottest bees I have ever encountered, hotter than anything I've experienced since AHB have struck in my county. Is there any indication of how long this "transient" status will last?

I admit that I'm not sure I buy it. I'm very skeptical of any AHB sensationalism. I'm not in denial. I live in a county that our government says has been taken over by AHB yet I still keep bees and I'm not experiencing anything like people are describing as AHB. I may be wrong but I think that AHB can and will be managed. If I am wrong I will buy thicker bee suits, bigger smokers and continue to keep bees. As my handle suggests, I live in a very rural area of a very rural county. My biggest fear (bigger than AHB!) is that the government will declare that all honeybees in our "confirmed" AHB counties will have to be destroyed. That would be a shame but I can imagine, especially, our current regime trying to push something like that on us.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Argentina has a longer exposure to AHB than the US and has big areas of similar terrain to the southwest US. Buenos Aires province is a world class honey exporter and they have done some large Mitochondiral dna studies to address these concerns about the EHB / AHB interaction and to get definitive answers.

I found it interesting they can id haplotypes to the geographic origins of Iberia and North Africa for example which would go back to the 1800s Spanish settlements. I think the conclusions are that the EHB stock has not been taken over or even mixed in most of the province and its a patchy mix to the north and west where it is hotter.

http://www.ibra.org.uk/articles/20080611_115

I've got a copy of the pdf if you want it emailed. I don't know if they have done anything similar for TX, GA or FL.

Oh, one interesting thing is about the comparison for Buenos Aires province. The province is huge, about 1/2 of TX which I was surp. to find. I show 307,571 km2 for BA prov.
and 696,000 for TX. So this BA study covers a giant honey production area with very pro-active beekeepers as far as AHB is concerned.
I think BA province then represents a best case vs. AHB because of the relative density of the beeks and EHB colonies. TX I have to think would be much more difficult,
bigger, much lower beek and EHB density, larger feral environment.
 
#83 ·
I picked up a hive that had taken residence in a gas grill. The owner said the were pretty gental. I went to pick them up, and when I got 20 feet away they were on me big time. I suited up fully. Put the whole gas grill in the back of my truck..When I got them back to the house, I had to suit up in my truck. Hundreds of bees poundind my whole body. stung thru suit can't count the numbers. Hundreds of stingers on my gloves.
I put them behind my shop. Good thing it was on a Friday evening. Sat could not even be in the front of my shop. One bee headbutting, then 3, then 8, then 20. These bees followed me 20 yards before they got disinterested and 10 minuits of waiting.
I didn't go back till Tuesday. Peeked around the corner of the building and pow 3 hit me on my forehead area. I run away with my tail tucked and desided to distroy them that night.
Covered the whole gas grill that night with a cloth cover covered that with a plastic tarp and placed a gasoline motor with a exahst extension under the covers and started the motor. Good redense. If I get any more African bees, they two will be distroyed. Don't want them breading around here.
I can deal with agressive hives but not them. You,ll know if they are African.
 
#84 · (Edited)
One thing I recall reading about when they first appeared in Argentina is that the first waves came in as real bad-a,,es but after they got established they calmed down somewhat. I can't recall the article but I think that is a typical
experience but not due to interbreeding it seems. In Brazil the apiary I took over started by trying EHBs before AHB spread there. EHBs were a consistent failure, never really got established so they were happy to get a viable income source when AHBs showed up, which is the story all thru South and Central America. Given that there is no alternative, Brazil has turned the situation into a big marketing advantage in the production of fully organic apiary products.
You have beekeepers who can't afford and don't need apiary treatments and
who are located in areas that are still quite wild or protected. This is a nice example... http://www.cearapi.com.br/
I have a pdf (or maybe I can find the link) where one of the coop beeks there talks about how they collected honey before
they got organized. It was right out of the stone age using fire and taking stings. The way he phrased it in Portuguese is very poetic, something like
"it was a time of fire and pain"
Let me seee.....
 
#85 ·
For some reason the ARS site (shown in my post #79 herein) is not accessable anylonger. There were some interesting observations in this research. I wish now that I had copied the paper and saved it but I did not, but will share with you some of may recollections.

First: This paper discussed the transient nature of of Ahb crossed with Ehb.

Temporarily there is a crossing and thereby reduction of the Aggressiveness of AHB.

However, it was found that Ahb drones flew farther, and were more aggressive in breeding virgin queens. Also Ahb colonies were constantly in a swarm mode and therefore always had large populations of drones.

Ahb queens emerged a day earlier than European queens and therefore destroyed the late emerging european queen cells.

Hence the reason for the transient nature of crosses between ehb/ahb. Eventually in ahb established areas the european (unmanaged) populations are eliminated.

Second: Ahb have not spread throughout the southern tier of States as first anticipated. It was found that areas that had 50+ inches of rain per year, when the rain was evenly distributed throughout different seasons prevented the spread of Ahb. However, areas with 50+ inches of rain per year in monsoonial weather patterns (rain only in the moonsoon period) did not restrict the spread of Ahb.

Hence, Ahb are better estabilished in Arizona, New Mexico, and west Texas. This is probably why my county is not on the list of AHB.

Now other observations from other studies.

Ahb are able to migrate about 300 miles per year with certain weather patterns (see above and observations following). The first Ahb in the U.S. were found in 1990 in Hildago county Texas. That was 20 years ago and hence all areas where Ahb can become established has already happened. 20x300=6,000 miles.

A distinction must be made between an 'established' population, one where ahb are predominant and one where they can be found on occassion. Ahb do not cluster, nor keep large winter stores of honey, hence cold weather destroys a colony.

The demarcation line for survival of the Ahb line runs through (in Texas) Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. But consideration must be given to the fact that Ahb can migrate 300 miles in a year with conducive weather patterns. Consideration must also be given to those years when there is mild winters and the Ahb are not winter killed, thereby allowing migration to extend beyond the 300 mile demarcation line; although this would only be temporarily.

Also, Ahb swarms also hitch a ride on trucks, trains, and even automobiles so they can be spread over large areas, however, they still would not become 'established'.
 
#87 · (Edited)
One thing the US does not have that is a big factor in South America is the Andes mountain range which has naturally blocked AHB from Chile. They can't overcome either altitude or cold. Uruguay is a mixed bag but there are some
really interesting specialty beeks there who keep the lineage of some of the old Spanish "criollo" (I think) bees. I think they have remained AHB free but these are exceptionally skilled guys in micro-climates. High value honey too.

Question, I should be able to figure this out but i'm lazy, where is that 50'' rain area or line? That is a big big rain ammount. Generally the AHBs are better adapted to prolonged rainy conditions but this is different than monsoonal deluges.
 
#90 ·
Question, I should be able to figure this out but i'm lazy, where is that 50'' rain area or line?

That is a big big rain ammount.

Generally the AHBs are better adapted to prolonged rainy conditions but this is different than monsoonal deluges.
JBG look on a map of Paris Texas In Northeast Texas, then find Huntsville, Texas, just north of Houston on I-45. Draw a north to south line through these cities and everything east of this would probably fit into that category.

Well, maybe for some areas but not for here. I remember one year back during the 80s when we received 120" of rain in one year, now that seemed like a lot. That was the year I was bitten on my achilles' tendon by a cottonmouth.

No, it is not the monsoonal deluges which serves as a barrier, but rather and even distribution of the 55" throughout the year.
 
#89 ·
I like this statement from the ARS article,
"
And everyone expected AHBs to spread across the southernmost tier of states. But, as of January 2004, AHBs have been found only in southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Texas, as well as Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands."

This is a really good article, but that "only" is a bit ironic. Now we got FL and
maybe GA on the map that sure is a heck of a big part of the south. Oh yes isn't Utah a bit of a surprize given that it gets pretty cold in the south of UT.
 
#92 ·
This 2004 states I quote:
"But, as of January 2004, AHBs have been found only in southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Texas, as well as Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Southern Florida would be hospitable to the bees given its temperature and rainfall,"

Now of course there are 'established' populations in Southern Florida as anticipated. But there is a difference between 'established' populations and some ahb colonies. The progression maps show incidences and not 'establishment'. An incidence can occur because a swarm has caught a ride on various means of conveyance, or invaded by northern migration, only to be killed during wintertime. These other states are not 'established' populations. The farther from the demarcation line (north) the easier to control, and less stringent management procedures are required. Also, the rain barrier may be broken in drier years, but no establishment would occur.
 
#91 ·
My experience with Suspected AHB’s

I got a swarm earlier this summer and combined them with a very week queenless hive that I had been nursing along. After a couple weeks the bees got very defensive of that part of the yard (“I’m a back yard keeper in southern California). I got stung twice and my daughter once, while watching them or working in the yard. I had been using sugar water to work my other hive but this one the sweet water didn’t work. When I tried smoke the bees went nuts. They filled the air in a cloud of bees and started running around like bees on speed. I though “wow, this is weird” then I heard a taping sound and looked down at the spray bottle and they were attacking the spray pump-handle…it was black plastic and they were going nuts attack it. Dive bombing it, crawling all over it with stingers out and thrusting, the whole nine yards.:eek: That was enough for me, I requeened with an Italian from up north (above the dreaded AHB line) and now ~month and a half later they are doing fine, just like my other hive.:D They keep their heads down when the smoker is lit and no more stings. I don’t know if the hive behavior was due to a “bad” queen or that she laying AHB’s (I didn’t send any in to the county to be checked), but it sure made a difference (and the bad experience convinced me to get a bee suit and gauntlet gloves). For the short time I had them in that state, I don’t see any difference in the production but while the old queen was in place the bees were noticeably smaller and ran around really fast when compared to their Italian sisters in my other hive.
 
#94 ·
That 2004 information is both wrong and outdated. This shows the current border of AHB spread in Oklahoma, which is really the border of the spread for the central part of the country:

http://www.ok.gov/~okag/forms/cps/ahb-map.pdf

I have found some AHB maps that show no AHB confirmed in north Texas. That is only because they stopped monitoring for them. They are there, and they did not jump from central TX to southern OK.

The counties in Oklahoma that are to the north seem to have occassional sightings so far. However, some of the counties in the middle of Oklahoma have established populations that seem to be doing well.

I did not get them tested, but I believe that I had some AHB genes in one of my hives last year. They were some nasty bugs. I had to tie a shirt around my neck to keep them from burrowing into my veil. If that were the norm, I would have to abandon urban beekeeping due to safety issues. Fortunately, there are always nice Cordovan queens, which is what I probably will go to exclusively in time. That way, I can look at a hive from outside and feel comfortable that they are nice, yellow bees.

One problem with AHB hives is that they are really hard to requeen with EHB stock. It may be just as easy to kill them all and start with new bees and a new queen.

Dewey Caron and Jerry Hayes spoke to our local bee club last spring. They are both AHB experts. The current predictions, based on weather and what happened going southwards in South America, is that AHB could spread over most of Kansas and maybe even into Nebraska in the plains states.

Neil
 
#97 ·
That 2004 information is both wrong and outdated. This shows the current border of AHB spread in Oklahoma, which is really the border of the spread for the central part of the country:

http://www.ok.gov/~okag/forms/cps/ahb-map.pdf Neil
Neil:

First lets get some facts straight Neil according to all research which I know of, if, however, there has been research which show otherwise, please give us the place where we can examine the research.
1. AHBs do not cluster and therefore do not survive harsh winters.

2. AHBs move to locations without natural swarm expansion, by hitching rides on trains, trucks and autos. This could (but maybe not) account for your so-called jumping.

3. The ARS map shows areas in Texas and Okl. And other states which showed new AHB confirmations in 2009, so for you to say that these are no longer being monitored in Texas is just not correct. Last Year I saw bee bags in Davy Crocket National Forest just south of Weches.

4. The ARS map and Oklahoma maps on report confirmed cases of bees but not necessarily where the bees are established. A confirmed colony (even if a random confirmation) would qualify, but source of these bees are unknown. In other words they could have hitched a ride on car or truck and in fact there may no longer be any AHB currently in that area. Once they have been confirmed they are not removed from the map when the bees are removed from the area.

5. The Oklahoma maps a first confirmation of bees in 2009 for a county that the surrounding counties had confirmations in 2004 (northwest), 2008 (north), 2006 (northeast), 2007 (east), 2004 (south). This does not show a normal swarm pattern migration.

Neil: There are conclusory allegations, which are conclusions based upon a mere allegation (these are totally worthless); and there are conclusions supported by interpreted facts (which may or may not be viable depending upon the interpretation). Statements made by you are not supported by facts.

>That 2004 information is both wrong and outdated.<

Conclusory allegation.

> This shows the current border of AHB spread in Oklahoma, which is really the border of the spread for the central part of the country<

Conclusory allegation

>The counties in Oklahoma that are to the north seem to have occassional sightings so far. However, some of the counties in the middle of Oklahoma have established populations that seem to be doing well.<

Conclusory allegation

>I have found some AHB maps that show no AHB confirmed in north Texas. That is only because they stopped monitoring for them. They are there, and they did not jump from central TX to southern OK<

Conclusory allegation

> Dewey Caron and Jerry Hayes spoke to our local bee club last spring. They are both AHB experts<

Conclusory allegation

> The current predictions, based on weather and what happened going southwards in South America, is that AHB could spread over most of Kansas and maybe even into Nebraska in the plains states.<

Conclusory allegation

"nothing but the facts" Jack Webb, Dragnet
 
#95 ·
In Argentina I think they made it as far south as Rio ***** province which does have a decent winter. I'm not sure of that and not knowing where in a big area like that does not help too much. I would be surprized if they can make it thru the winter anywhere in Kansas or Nebraska. You really have to look at Buenos Aires province I think to get some ideas. The caveat is that I don't think the US has a state with the kind of absolute colony and beek numbers and density considering that the province ranks in the top five in world export for honey.
 
#98 ·
Here is a reason to like wikipedia.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragnet_(series)

"Just the facts, ma'am"

While "Just the facts, ma'am" has come to be known as Dragnet's catchphrase, it was never actually uttered by Joe Friday; the closest he came were, "All we want are the facts, ma'am" and "All we know are the facts, ma'am". "Just the facts, ma'am" comes from the Stan Freberg parody St. George and the Dragonet.
........
I could swear I did hear Joe Friday say "Just the facts, ma'am" in several episodes but the Wiki obsessive gets the nod.
 
#100 ·
#99 ·
I have a friend in florida that does pollination and he has worked his hives with just a veil, he had hives tested and found out that most of his hives had AHB genes but working them he could tell because they were calm, he re queened all his hives since because he is in some kind of a anti AHB thing they have going in that state.

Now on the rain and cold barrier, I don't believe this will last because the AHB hives breed with feral hives and they will get the traits needed to survive in those area's, why wouldn't they? I have always heard that the AHB in the states are crossed with European bee's and the main trait that tells you they are AHB is the agressiveness, with bee's being trucked and catching rides from confirmed AHB states it is just a matter of time before they can survive anywhere I think. I watch a show on AHB the other night and it showed the same locations as this map http://www.stingshield.com/all-us.htm and you can see that there is even a location in northern Alabama now, so I think it is just a matter of time so we best get ready for them.
 
#101 ·
In the 2004 study, the researchers found that when laying drone eggs, the hybrid AHB/EHB were more inclined to lay AHB drones/queens even when the queens were AI'd with equal amounds of AHB/EHB semen. They had no logical reason for this, but rather just noted the anomaly.

I think the most likely reason (conclusory allegation) for random appearances of AHB in northern states would be from queens raised or bred in any area where AHB drones might be present, and then any resulting supercedure could result in AHB queens.

Also, another consideration is, that suppose you have a queen that has been bred to a AHB drone, then that colony, which would cluster, could preserve the AHB genetic to overwinter, and then produce AHB queens the next fall. Another conclusory allegation, based upon logic only. However, I don't think (conclusory allegation), AHB would ever become 'established' as the predominant genetic bee line in an area where the winters require clustering for survival.

With regard to the rain barrier, please read my observation in my post #56, 1st paragraph.
 
#120 ·
......Also, another consideration is, that suppose you have a queen that has been bred to a AHB drone, then that colony, which would cluster, could preserve the AHB genetic to overwinter, and then produce AHB queens the next fall. Another conclusory allegation, based upon logic only. However, I don't think (conclusory allegation), AHB would ever become 'established' as the predominant genetic bee line in an area where the winters require clustering for survival.
I have done a good bit of study on AHB genetics. Your conclusions here don't appear to be quite accurate.

1. Unless a queen is of Apis m. scutellata matriline (mtDNA) she will not produce Africanized drones since drones are haploid and 100% of their genetic material comes from the Queen's DNA. EHB queens mated with AHB drones cannot produce queens with A. m. scutella mtDNA and when isolated in an area where the drones are predominately EHB, the colony eventually will pretty much return to EHB genetics. A small portion of Africanized genes will remain, but they are already present in the DNA of all feral and commercial bees in this country. Generally speaking AHB's with European matrilines (mtDNA) are not nearly as aggressive. You get the nuclear version when AHB queens with African matrilines are mated with drones produced by queens with the same matrilines. These bees will be much closer to the original A. m. scutellata. The biggest danger to managed hives in AHB territory are usurpation swarms with African matriline queens. These small swarms will attach themselves to the bottom of a hive and their workers will gradually invade the hive and kill the EHB queen, after which the rest of the hive will readily accept the AHB queen and within 6 weeks, the workers will be replaced with hyper aggressive AHB workers.

2. AHB can and will cluster, documented overwintered colonies of AHB (African matrilines) have been found as far north as Albuquerque, NM. I am not sure where you got the information that they don't cluster, but it is not correct. They survive quite well in the mountains around Tuscon, AZ where winter temperatures easily drop to levels that would kill them if they did not. I would suggest that their unsuitability for survival in more Northern areas is related more to their frequent swarming and absconding behaviors among other factors.
 
#103 ·
Not only are they that bad, they are worse. I live in rual San Patricio County. Two years ago I hired a guy to clear some of the brush off my property and in short order he came running out swatting at something screaming bees bees! Well I did not know anything about bees really and suspected that they may be AHB. He had jumped off his dozer, engine running and booked it out of there. I got in the phonebook and began calling around to see if there was someone who could come out and find where hive was. I found a guy, but he wanted $300 to come out. I thought that was just outrageious, so we managed to get the dozer shut down and I got on ebay and found a full bee suit. I ordered it and it came within a few days. I found the hive in an abandoned steam boiler that had about 4 three quarter inch threaded ports in it. The bees were just incredably mean. I would get within about 6 - 8 feet from them and they would attack! And follow me for hundreds of yards without giving up. They would slam into me and sting my leather gloves and head gear. My gloves were covered with stingers and venom. I am not exagerating at all. I was so facinated by them. Just amazed. I plugged the holes with expanding foam. No more bee problem.

I figured, well I have a bee suit, maybe I should get a hive of good bees. I found David Burns, Long Lane Honey Bees, web site offering bee lessons. I now have three hives this year. I've been working these with only a veil, no gloves and short sleeve shirt.

My advice about AHB is do not keep any. In Texas it is against the law to keep AHB. Check the statues. You may be held liable. They will go after the kids, pets, livestock and you.

My 2 cents,
Mark
Lake City, Tx
 
#104 ·
How long ago was this? The experience has been that the first few waves
are the worst then they settle down once they get established. If you were impressed by one colony then think about what happens when you get an
AHB yard upset. They will all join in the attack in which case you just have to shut down and evacuate. Some days are just not possible to work them. Period.
 
#105 ·
I think there may be some truth to the idea that, over time, even the pure AHB in South America have become more manageable, probably due to selective breeding.

However, the main reason that the human-AHB situation improves is that people adapt. They get more careful about where they put managed hives, and people learn that a feral hive needs to be respected.

There are still plenty of very aggressive bees all over south and central america. It's not like they suddenly get more gentle after the first year or two with no change in genetics.
 
#106 ·
I have tried to find the map that Dewey Caron presented to our bee club last year that predicted that AHB could spread to Nebraska. I cannot find it on the internet. However, I did come across this article that includes a different AHB prediction map. This one shows the bees barely make it into Kansas. I hope this one is right:

http://www.utahcountybeekeepers.org/Other Files/AHB Press Release.pdf
 
#109 ·
#107 ·
All of these maps are flawed. My perception of them is that whoever is making them wants to show the progression of AHB through the US. In pursuit of this goal they show a county to be positive for AHB even though there was only one hive found and it was destroyed. The maps really need to show SUSTAINED presence of AHB.

My county, Navarro county in Texas, is shown to be positive for AHB. I've been keeping bees ever since they found AHB in our county and I've yet to run into AHB. If I did, they were just a mean hive and I dealt with it. Most people say that you'll know it when you experience it so I don't think I have yet. The casual reader of one of these maps would think that Navarro county is fully populated by AHB and that is just not the case.
 
#108 ·
All of these maps are flawed.

My perception of them is that whoever is making them wants to show the progression of AHB through the US.

In pursuit of this goal they show a county to be positive for AHB even though there was only one hive found and it was destroyed.

The maps really need to show SUSTAINED presence of AHB.
Dear beyondthesidewalks:
I think I agree with what you are trying to express? Let me just add my two cents worth, and two cents arent worth much anymore.

The maps are flawed not because of what they actually show, but because of our perception of what they show. The maps show a confirmed case of AHB. The flaw is that they don't show a theory on the source of the AHB.

I think we misinterpret the data given on these maps. As AHB become more established in the parts of the South and Southwest, I theorize there will be a greater chance of these bees hitching a ride on trains, trucks, and automobiles, spreading them to locations further north. However, at this time, with the current data available, I don't think they will become established outside of the habitat in which they can survive because of their tendency not to cluster.

I totally agree that the maps are misleading in that obviously most who see the maps interpret them as being established populations, when this simply is not true. My guess is that had I sent in a sample of my AHB colonies, then my county would have been listed as a AHB county, even though the source was known and dealt with.

I agree they show the counties to be positive even if the AHB was an anomoly for the area. Perhaps two maps should be presented. One showing confirmation of AHB, to elevate awareness of the problem, but another showing only sustainable populations. Thereby allowing beekeepers to adopt appropriate management techniques for those areas. These areas then should also have a higher designation of funds for monitoring the problem.

Thanks for the excellent observations beyondthesidewalks.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Same here thanks. Fascinating. I had no idea they had did NASA map like this. I don't see any citations for the group that put it together. Guess I could contact the UT expert Danielle Downey. I would like to see how the mapping would look for similar areas of South America. Maybe they have already done it. I would think it would predict an area like Buenos Aires province had high survivibilty but the reality is something different. Also, I think some of the statments re. EHB interbreeding are not "borne out" looking at the South American experience.

Did anyone look at Deknow's quotes about Kerr in the Madison bee lab?
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=453482#post453482
This was all new to me and really interesting.
 
#112 ·
Unless you buy into 'An Inconvenient Truth', in which case I'LL be dealing with them up here in New England in a few years.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Bill

p.s. I guess in all seriousness, if we really ARE entering into an overall global warming period, regardless of whether or not the cause is the activities of man or just a natural pattern, and if it DOES mean that most sections of the US become warmer and, possibly, drier (not all, up here in NE it is predicted we could become colder and wetter, because of wind pattern changes), then it COULD mean that AHB will be able to migrate farther north.

Not sure any of this really matters. The Brazilians have adapted fine to the new bees and I am sure we will, too, if necessary. From what I have been reading, many already have.
 
#114 ·
Unless you buy into 'An Inconvenient Truth', in which case I'LL be dealing with them up here in New England in a few years.
Oh great! Now we're going to season an already sensationalized and politically charged issue with another sensatinalized and even more politically charged issue.

The global warming crowd doesn't have much credibility at the moment. This year many places were colder than normal and their excuse for their being wrong is that the colder weather was because of global warming.:scratch:

The earth has gotten warmer in places. It's cooled in others. Ice cap has retreated in certain polar regions and advanced in others. The 1800s had a "mini" ice age. The earth changed long before man dominated. It will continue to change. Bees and beekeeping will continue to change. Let's keep it real.
 
#113 ·
In places like Brazil or Central America there is no choice about AHB now.
As I posted earlier, hobby and sideliner beekeeping is a very different situation in those nations as well as how commercial works. Forget about backyard suburban or urban beekeeping for a start.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top