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No more wiring frames for me

50K views 46 replies 28 participants last post by  MattDavey 
#1 · (Edited)
For the last year or so I have been using bamboo skewers instead of wiring frames. Yes skewers.

I hate wiring frames and the thin skewers don't take long to install. You just have to drill holes in the bottom bar if you don't have a groove.

The skewers are the same thickness as foundation, so comb is fairly uniform. I have been making mostly foundationless frames, only using ice cream sticks for comb guides. The only issue is the occasional hole, which often has a queen cup or two (can you see it?). Though I've seen holes with frames of foundation too. Strips of foundation are working nicely as well.

To install I just turn the frame upside down putting PVA glue in the groove of the top bar. Insert the skewers (blunt end first) then put glue around the part of the skewer that will be permanently in the bottom bar. Push down, then just break or cut the remaining part off.

The comb is quite stable. I haven't used them in an extractor, but you could definitely use them in an extractor the second year. The skewers seem to help in getting them to attach the comb to the bottom bar as well.

It's great for cutting out comb too.


Here's some pictures:





 
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#5 ·
Matt,
How much does it cost you to make a frame, and how long does it take you. I'm not very handy, but it's hard to come up with the money to expand. I can get rite cell medium frames for 2.65 each, includes shipping. And of course no work. But that's 26.50 for a 10 frame box. I need to add about 20 boxes. next year so it adds up.
Thanks,
Robbin
 
#11 ·
How much does it cost you to make a frame, and how long does it take you.
Cost:
Both the skewers and the ice cream sticks are about 1 cent each. So about 5 cents per frame. (2 skewers and 3 ice cream sticks.)

If I use 1" strips of foundation and 2 skewers it's about 18 cents per frame.

Time:
If you include drilling holes it takes less than 3 minutes per frame.

If you use frames with a bottom groove as well as a top groove you could probably do it in 1 minute per frame.
 
#12 ·
The frame is upside down when I glue it, because the strips are short they don't need support to stay vertical.

If you use full sheets of foundation you can use a cloths peg on the skewer to hold it in line with it. When the PVA glue is dry and you put the frame the right way up the foundation hangs vertically and the bees attach it to the skewers.
 
#7 ·
I shoved toothpicks into the top and bottom groove next to the strip of foundation, but they are slightly thin, some tended to slide out. I think bamboo verticals would work great to hold the foundation in place.

Man I am glad people have better imagination than I

Matt - Many thanks good sir.
 
#8 ·
I used fatbeemans tip of creating an X with fishing line. Kept the comb straight and the bees built comb right over the line. However they never did rear brood in those cells. Got tired of that and moved to plastic foundation. Much faster, easier and no worries about bowed or blown out comb.

So far no issues with plastic, the bees take to it no problem.
 
#9 ·
Yep, Bamboo Sticks, Corn Dog Sticks, etc: this is a great idea. In doing a quick search online I found that they can be ordered with different lengths, thicknesses, flat or round. Some fun experimenting will be going on in my yard this spring.
 
#15 ·
As the skewers and ice cream sticks are a similar thickness to foundation, the comb seems to generally be made deep enough for brood. Have a look at the top photo.

You do get some cells that won't be used for brood. But you get that with wired frames as well.

If the frame isn't vertical when the comb is built, the comb can go off to one side. So in that case the cells won't be used for brood.
 
#20 ·
Do you drill holes in the top and push through to the bottom bar? I was a little confused on your explanation. Or, is there no hole drilling if you have grooves in the top and bottom bars. Thanks
Up untill now I was drilling holes in just the bottom bar, as I had a groove on the top bar.

I will be using frames with both a top and bottom groove from now on and cutting the skewers to the right length (all in one go), so then I can just slide them into place.

Lauri has said she also does this and just uses the skewers to jam the foundation into the groove.

I've found comb is built much better with a strip of foundation. Where the ones with ice cream sticks tend to have a hole or passageway left in the comb, down the length of the skewers. It takes some time for them to fill in those areas.
 
#18 ·
For the last year or so I have been using bamboo skewers instead of wiring frames. Yes skewers.

I hate wiring frames and the thin skewers don't take long to install. You just have to drill holes in the bottom bar if you don't have a groove.

The skewers are the same thickness as foundation, so comb is fairly uniform. I have been making mostly foundationless frames, only using ice cream sticks for comb guides. The only issue is the occasional hole, which often has a queen cup or two (can you see it?). Though I've seen holes with frames of foundation too. Strips of foundation are working nicely as well.

To install I just turn the frame upside down putting PVA glue in the groove of the top bar. Insert the skewers (blunt end first) then put glue around the part of the skewer that will be permanently in the bottom bar. Push down, then just break or cut the remaining part off.

The comb is quite stable. I haven't used them in an extractor, but you could definitely use them in an extractor the second year. The skewers seem to help in getting them to attach the comb to the bottom bar as well.

It's great for cutting out comb too.
Hello Matt:
It's good to hear that it's working out for you, because after seeing your previous posting about this I made all my deep frames with your method including using Popsicle sticks. Since I make my own frames I drill 1/8th inch holes in both the bottom and top bar after the frame is assembled. I grab 2 skewers at a time and dip their ends in glue, then each one is installed by first putting one end in the bottom bar hole sliding it down far enough to be able to push the other end up into the top bar hole, I push it up through the top bar until it's flush with the bottom bar then snap off the piece above the top bar. By sliding it that extra bit it spreads the glue around and it glues them in solid. I buy my skewers at the "Dollar Tree" it's $1.25 for 80. This method actually strengthens the frame somewhat. Thanks for the idea.
Colino
 
#21 ·
In 50 years among the Bees CC Miller used wood sticks also. He did not drill holes in the frames. He simply cut them just short the hight between the top and bottom bars, then to secure these by dipping them for bit in bees wax then someone put some pressure on a board and press the sticks into the foundation a bit. He used 5 or 6 of these 1/16 by 1/16 "splints" on each frame. I plan to try this useing the bamboo sticks.
 
#27 ·
I havn't did a search,But I'd like to get away from using as much foundation as I can.
My question is? I run shallow supers,My extractor has a speed control, If I was to go without foundation & cross wired,Would I sling it all to pieces?
I've always used full sheets in my supers, of the wired type.
 
#30 ·
I still haven't used them in an extractor yet. But if the comb is attached on the sides and bottom and over a year old, it seems to be as strong as wired comb.

These frames are great for making cut comb.

I've mainly been doing crush and strain with them and it's so much easier to clean up these frames compared with wired frames.
 
#31 ·
Well I made up 80 frames yesterday using this method. I like it allot. Here what it look like:

Wood Wood stain Product Hardwood Floor



I used your suggestion of what Laurie does. I use 2.5 skewers per frames. Two for vertical support. I cut one skewer in half and I wedge it into the top groove to keep the starter strip in place. I also kept the tip pieces from the vertical supports when cut and used them to hold the outside of the starter strip. Zero waste from the skewers. You can see what I did here:

Laminate flooring Hardwood Wood Floor Wood flooring


For the starter strips I use a 1 3/8" top bar to cut them with a heavy duty pizza cutter. 100 sheets of wax foundation = 600 frames. I have 80-100 lbs of wax to mill into foundation @ 8 sheets per pound= 640 sheets. Cut into 6 strips per sheets should yield = 3,840 ish frames set up this way for next year. I've wired 1000's of frames this is a breath of fresh air for me. Thanks.
 
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