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So which frames to start with?

9K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  psfred 
#1 ·
Hello... New beek here. Well I will be this Spring once I start my hives. I will build my hives this Winter but buy the frames. I am seeing N style, J Style, whatever other style. How do you decide which style to go with?
And actually, I would consider making my own frames. I have a nicely equipped woodshop. But I am sure it will be very montonous work. But I'm thrifty too and prefer to make almost anything I can instead of buying it. Anyone out there make their own frames?

Thanks!!
 
#6 ·
I've seen poplar rot in many instances. Too bad, fun to work with. I build (built) my own frames , so if you're up for some satisfaction go for it. If you're trying to get rich, well........
 
#9 ·
There are three major types of frames: Wedge with split or solid bottom bars, slotted frames, and grooved frames. The wedge style frames are nice for wired foundation since the wedge traps the top of the wires and holds them securely. Slotted tops are the easiest to use, just drop the foundation in. Grooved frames are a bit more fiddly, but work great with plastic foundation.

I make my frames as follows:

Find a nice 2 x something that is flat or very nearly flat. Cut to 19" lengths. Set table saw to cut the taper on the end, or 3/8" if you want a flat end to keep hive beetles out of the space (but the bees glue them down more). Cut both side across the end. Set fence to width (1 1/16" for standard frames, 7/8" for narrow frames) and rip the 2 x across the width. You end up with proper width sections with two tapers. Set the saw to exactly split these in half, should come out a bit less than 3/4". Cut dados on the ends to hold the end bars, exactly one inch from the inside of the dado to the end of the bar on both ends.

It really helps to have a band saw for this job, as it give you an extra bar out of a 2x6 or 2x8 and they will be a hair thicker too. You can use a narrow kerf blade on the table saw too, I do.

Of end bars, plane some 2 by stock down to 1 3/8" or 1 1/4" (standard or narrow bars) and cut to the correct length for whatever size you are making (deep, medium, shallow, Dadant deep, whatever). Mill a slot with a dado set down the center to fit the top bars you made (measure -- should be about 3/4" for the narrow and 7/8" for the standard, but mine vary a bit). Mill whatever slot you want on the other end for your bottom bars - -I like split bottom bars and use 3/8" x 3/8" bars, but 3/8" x 5/16" works fine too.

Slice these blocks to make the end bars -- make sure they are the same as the dados you cut on the top bars so they fit tight but don't split things.

Cut bottom bars to fit whatever you cut in the end bars.

I find that I set up a pile of wood in blanks. That way I can set up a cut, get it exactly right, and crank out a pile of parts. Do one operation at a time and process the whole batch -- stay awake, it's BORING, and watch that you don't machine your fingers too!

I have a ton of frames to make -- plan on a three more hives next year, so that means 100 narrow frames (33 deep and 66 medium, plus a few) and I'll need at least 80 standard shallow frames for honey. Gonna be a lot of sawdust in the shop this year.

I do really like narrow frames -- the bees seem to build comb really fast on them and keep it flatter than "standard" frames. Fill it up with brood, too, top to bottom.

Peter
 
#11 ·
I just made 100 frames from the drawings Barry shared. Made them all from free scrap wood. And maybe 10 hours total in set up and cutting. What did it save me in the way of money? maybe $70 or so over buying them pre made. Unless you are just flat broke, not working, and have time on your hands anyway. I am not sure making them at home is saving anything.

I do get a satisfaction knowing they are frames I made though.
 
#16 ·
I would suggest making boxes with locally available 1x12's and make the frame end bars 3/8" to 1/2" shorter than the actual lumber is wide. Might shave the boards down a tiny bit to eliminate variations, too, and make the end bars to fit that dimension. I've noticed that deep frames tend to be 1/8" shorter than medium or shallow frames compared to the depth of the boxes -- wonder if that has something to do with drone brood in between the boxes every spring?

I may do that this year, but you do want to watch that you don't get half a dozen different sized brood boxes going -- you never know when you are going to need to swap frames between boxes to do splits, open a brood nest, or give a hive some eggs to make a queen. A big mess if they are different depths.

Peter
 
#18 ·
poplar actually turns into a hard wood as it dries, so Im told ! It gets extremely hard and strong. Its why they make furniture out of it other than it keeps straight and little to no knots.
I have an old chicken coup in my yard made out of cut poplar logs, 80 years old and no sign of giving up yet
 
#19 ·
I believe the poplar in Canada grows slowly and is a different timber than the poplar in my country which grows incredibly fast (great to grow a quick shelterbelt), but is a very light, porous wood that will rot down quickly and doesn't even burn very well.

Same tree, i think, but different climate.
 
#21 ·
Very likely. Poplar is the name of over 35 different varieties of trees in the willow, cottonwood and aspen families
Genes: Pupulus.

Poplar lumber can be bought at Home Depot right next to Oak and Cedar. It is sold as a fine stain grade wood. It is not in fact Poplar but comes from a tree of the Liriodendron genes and is not in fact even related to the poplar. How it got called Poplar I have no idea.
 
#24 ·
There are several species of trees commonly called poplar. Tulip Poplar, Liriodendron tulipfera, has large, tulip like blossoms and lovely greenish yellow heartwood and white sapwood. It is easy to work, fairly hard, not very rot resistant, and the heartwood is pretty much impervious to termites. Grows into huge trees,

The various Populus species (cottonwood, aspen, and "hybrid poplar" have much softer wood. Very fast growing, rain branches constantly, and rot in a heartbeat. I've been using up some cottonwood lumber a friend left with us a decade or so ago for bottom bars since they don't carry much weight. Using that wood for top bars would be asking for mushy frames that break easily, it's just not tough enough for the job. Yellow or tulip poplar would work great, but I stick with "whitewood" pine, yellow pine, and cedar from the scrap pile at Menard's for top bars.

The bees don't care, but I want sturdy frames, they are too fiddly to make and I hate to waste the bees efforts making wax by breaking weak frames.

My neighbor was replacing some window sills and exterior window framing this year, and gave me the redwood the original owner used to build them. Makes great top bars.

Peter
 
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