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PF-120 / PF-106 foundation

43K views 68 replies 28 participants last post by  Barry 
#1 · (Edited)
Received my order of PF120's (Mann Lake) today. Having used the Dadant plastic 4.9 in trials and it not working so well, I can see why this design works so well for many. Don't like plastic frames, so I'm cutting off all the frames and putting the foundation into my wooden frames. Works just fine.




Used a piece of 3/4" plywood to set the frame on and run through the table saw leaving the bottom bar attached.


Fits nicely into a wooden frame.


Completed frame.
 
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#49 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I still have five sheets of the Dadant stuff. Did not even get part of one done correctly on multiple tries. You can have it if you want it.
Solomon, if you still have that 4.9 plastic foundation I would like to get it from you, or if you know anyone who has any let me know. I need a few sheets for an experiment I want to try.

Thanks
 
#3 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

No, I have my box of it that I'll keep for my collection of failed foundations. Have some aluminum foundation as well. But to their credit, they were the first to spend time and money on developing a plastic SC foundation. :applause:
 
#7 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I have seen examples of all the deficiencies that people speak of, but about the same proportion of other foundations are misdrawn and I can clean off the plastic and start over! Everyone feel free to ship me all your hated plastic foundation. It must be drawn on a good flow and it needs to be spaced tightly. I run it thru a table saw and draw 11 frames . Throwing in one frame at a time, except in the middle of the brood next, does result in problems most of the time.
 
#12 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I have been using Mann Lake PF120 for three years and it has worked great. I always install 10 fames in a box. After the bees draw the comb in a honey super, I usually remove one frame and space out the remaining 9 to make the comb deeper and eaiser to remove the caps
 
#13 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

dang it Barry, I was jusr thinking about my order for next year (everal hundred pf 120's) and how I like the foundation but hate all the ladder comb due to the top bar being thinner. Now I will probably spend hours and hours cutting them and putting them in wooden frames.
 
#15 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

dang it Barry, I was jusr thinking about my order for next year (everal hundred pf 120's) and how I like the foundation but hate all the ladder comb due to the top bar being thinner. Now I will probably spend hours and hours cutting them and putting them in wooden frames.
Wondered what has been causing all the burr comb, it's a pain and I don't have that issue with wooden frames.

Can't see spending $1.75 for frames though and still needing another frame :scratch:
 
#17 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

Sol

The ladder comb is bridge comb that the bees attach to the top frame of one to the bottom frame of another to communicate with. I have noticed that my bees do this a lot with the Mann Lake PF series. Barry I really like your idea, and you did a great job. Thanks for sharing. I much prefer wood frames but have tried to work a lot of 4.9 into my yards. I hosted a field workshop last Sunday at one of my beeyards with guest Mike Bush, and we discussed the small cell applications. I might try cutting a few down like you did.
 
#18 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I know D Semple did the math on frame costs, but to me, I already have the wooden frames and I have to put something in them. It might be a tad more expensive than straight foundation, but since I'm not aware of anyone else selling the equivalent in foundation form only, it's a small price to pay.
 
#19 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I see. I am familiar with that, just not by that name. I'll make note of it for future usage.

From talking with Mike, I was led to believe that it was largely a method to get some drone brood into the hive because PF frames don't really allow for it. I'm attempting to provide at least foundationless frame in each box to compensate. This is the first year of that scheme so I'll see how it works out.
 
#21 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

:D I was afraid that question was going to come up. I haven't gotten that far yet. I think I'll simply drill two small holes in the flange about 10" apart and nail it down into the bottom bar. Anyone have a faster way of attaching it?
 
#23 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

I noticed the ladder comb between two mediums w/ PF 120s just this morning when I tried prying off the top body with the hive tool. I'm glad I keep a carving knife in the beekeeping bucket otherwise I doubt I would have been able to twist it off.

Then I had to scrape off the ladder/burr comb from the PF 120s.

You can feel the PF120s 'give' when you work them with the hive tool.

Barry, are you still glad you ordered them?

I put some foundationless frames between the drawn PF 120s to see if they draw out the comb 'regressed' or not.
 
#28 ·
Re: PH120 foundation

There is currently no 'small cell' foundation available in plastic. Back in the early '00s when I started, Dadant came out with some, but it had very shallow cell walls and was almost universally rejected by the bees. In comparison, I have only had one PF frame misdrawn thus far, out of about 300 that I own. Probably about 200 currently in hives.

I haven't seen much warpage on delivery, but I have seen a little develop later on. Barry will have to comment on his experience, but the pictures look pretty straight.

Also, I recommend against black. If you leave it in the sun for just a few minutes, it will get hot enough to melt the wax.
 
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