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Did a mite count, got 8-9 in 1 cup of bees! HELP!

17K views 77 replies 22 participants last post by  throrope 
#1 ·
I officially registered my hives and had the inspector out yesterday...I've got Varroa! We did a rubbing alcohol with about a cup or more of bees and strained the liquid to find about 8 varroa! We are in our honey flow here, what are some safe products to use? I have the quick strips although I'm hesitant to use them during honey flow...the inspector mentioned Hop guard treatment but I'm worried after doing some reading about bees absconding and brood loss...any suggestions?

- Jared
 
#4 ·
I read that varroa are naturally repelled by the nectar from the Cilantro/Coriander flower. If you're concerned about using chemicals in your hive, then that might be an "organic" method you could try...give them plenty of cilantro/coriander (same plant, 2 names) to forage on, or maybe get a few drops of the essential oil, put on a cotton ball, and leave it in the hive?

If you have bad varroa problems, though, then I'm not sure it's the best time to experiment with unproven organic treatments. I probably still would, but I have other hives I can pull nucs from to replace my losses if "the organic method" fails on me.
 
#16 ·
Agree. The threshold for mites is 3%, 3 mites per 100 bees. JD right, you have mild infestation. Again, in my opinion, the absolute number is not telling much. You need to see a dynamic - are your numbers steady or growing :( or decline :)
Also - do not panic, most of the bees in US have some mites. Am I right?

Irresponsible treatment could just create mite-resistance.
 
#19 ·
Irresponsible treatment could just create mite-resistance.
Herein lies the key to pandora's box! Irresponsible use of chemical treatments for anything unavoidably leads to chemical resistance, followed by having to find new (usually more toxic & with more adverse side-effects) chemicals to use for the same problem...then the cycle repeats.......ad infinitum.
 
#9 ·
Spring titi is finished blooming. The main nectar flows in your area will continue through May. Then the Chinese tallow trees will bloom in June. Your best bet is to leave the supers on and not treat until then end of the Chinese tallow bloom (popcorn tree). You will have mites but your load is still below the treatment threshold. So your hives should be okay. The main issue is to not let them get weakend to the point that the SHBs overrun your hives. I would not treat with anything during the flow unless you do not intend to harvest any honey this year.
 
#10 ·
You say quick strips, might away quick strips? They are safe with a honey flow. Call the company they will verify that. I have used them during a flow with no problems.
 
#11 ·
yes, But given his conditions no need. He could wait. normal test is 1/2 cup bees no more than 6 so hes not in panic mode yet as long as hes not seeing DWV. That MQS is strong, I would be worried about flavor in the honey not a lot, but enough in this situation I would just wait until the flow is over. MQS and a new virgin queen to break the brood cycle and hes gloden into fall
 
#13 ·
I wonder how large the cup was... was it really a cup volume? Either way, surely the inspector would recognize a high mite count. I would give them a MAQS treatment, it would at least knock down the phoretic mites.... and cause a brood break... I've used it with the honey supers on and got no flavoring....
 
#14 ·
hmmm, ACTUALLY, something you CAN do during flow that will have ABSOLUTELY no effect on the honey:

Give them one foundationless frame in the middle of the brood nest; let them fill this frame with drone brood; once the drone brood's all capped off (but BEFORE any emerge) you take the comb & toss it in the deep freeze. After it's been frozen solid for a couple days you can feed it to the chickens, or simply cut the wax out and throw it out. The end result is you just lured most of your varroa into those nice, juicy, drone larvae & then froze 'em to death with 0 chemicals used :D
 
#17 ·
I bought some plastic drone frames for this purpose, but only because I was ordering a bunch of other stuff so shipping was covered already. I've been reading up on the effectiveness, and it really is only marginal during a strong hive/laying queen scenario...this is due to shear numbers of capped brood vs. bees vs. drone brood on a frame (max 1500 or so on a solid drone frame)....you will still have way more mites entering the brood cells vs. the drone cells because their is just way more brood cells to occupy in a strong hive.

One theoretical method I found interesting, where drone comb trapping is almost 100% effective, if you incorporate it into a broodless scenario such as a split and trapping the queen on the drone comb for a set amount of days (can't remember) then culling the frame. Almost 100% of the mites will have entered the drone comb at that point, and removing the frame will remove the mites.
 
#18 ·
When determining the mite load on a colony, whether brood is present, or not, needs to be taken into the equation. Nobody has factored that into their recomendation. His mite load is actually twice as high as everybody is suggesting. 3 mites in a hundred bee sample equals 3% load right? I disagree. Brood is present. 3% is doubled to 6% since there is brood present. This takes into account the mites under the cap. Does he really have a 6% infestation level? Most likely. Should he consider treating? This early in the year, most likely. By fall the damage will have been done. I've read that the recommendation in Canada is to treat whenever the load reaches or exceeds 2 1/2%. By Canada standards he should treat.

2 main products to choose from, MAQS, or Hopsguard. Both can be used with supers on the hive. Both will give you quick knockdown. MAQS says they'll get mites under the cap. Hopsguard does not. Hopsguard would give you a flash treatment only. No temperature consideration for Hopsguard like there is for MAQS. Check the University of Minnesota Bee Lab for the verification of the math equation.

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm
 
#20 ·
According to my understanding a full cup represents about 600 bees so 9 mites would be about a 1 1/2% infestation. That is a real low number with no brood present. However this early in the season and, presumably, with a lot of brood in the hives I would consider this a marginally high number that could well mean trouble a few months down the road. I would recommend either a hop guard or a thymol treatment to give the needed brood break and mite reduction.
 
#22 ·
I am aware of no resistance issues with formic, oxalic, thymol or hop guard. All except hop guard have been in use for quite a few years now. Amitraz products, though still effective, have had some reports of resistance starting to show up.
 
#24 ·
... Amitraz products, though still effective, have had some reports of resistance starting to show up.
I do not remember where, but it was clearly stated in some official document (related to bees) that Amitraz is not effective anymore because of overuse and improper use (saving money - using 1/2 dosage) by beekeepers... I guess, it was EPA report or something... sorry for not providing proper link, but we have a million threads there discussed this issue.
 
#23 ·
Robherc; I can understand and respect your position in regards to treatment resistance. That does not mean I agree with it. Here in lies the secret to IPM. rotating treatments, and only treating when the infestation level warrants. This greatly reduces the probability of breeding for resistance.

Let me state it another way. Fair chance that the mites will increase in population. Too high and the colony will possibly collaps. If he treats he will most likely reduce the mite and virus loads, so he still has bees next spring. If he doesn't treat, and the hive collapses, what will he pay for a new package? $2.40. That's all it will cost to treat the hive with Hopguard. That's a lot less then the cost of a package of bees. It's cheap insurance. Good management.

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm
 
#25 ·
Robherc; I can understand and respect your position in regards to treatment resistance. That does not mean I agree with it. Here in lies the secret to IPM. rotating treatments, and only treating when the infestation level warrants. This greatly reduces the probability of breeding for resistance.
Actually, what you & I said is pretty compatible...notice I qualified my statement that irresponsible use of chemicals.....
My personal conviction is to try very hard to use no, or at least VERY little, chemicals in my hives & on my crops; that said, I believe others have that choice to make, or not make, for themselves, so long as they use responsibility & good sense if they choose to use chemical treatments ;)
 
#27 ·
No, he's talking about Amitraz. Randy Oliver's website scientific beekeeping mentions it in a couple places. Randy comments on Amitraz loosing it's effectiveness in areas such as California. Around here we have not seen this happening yet. It will happen, it's just a matter of time. Please remember that continued use of chemical controls do result in a more hardy mite population. Nothing is 100% effective (and still have live bees) so those survivors are going to be tougher to control. I'm convinced the solution is in the genetics and that's the path I've chosen to pursure. But until I get to that point, I will still have to use something to control the mites chemically. I rotate treatments and test for mite levels several times a year. I take mite control VERY seriously.

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm
 
#30 ·
Every hive has mites. It's a matter of keeping the mite population at a managable level. MAQS every summer before August 15th kills enough mites to survive the winter with no brood break here in California. If you don't treat with something, your hives will surely die. Small cell, essential oils and all other "old wives tale" remedies don't work.
 
#33 ·
I think your mite counts are ok and you can wait until the flow stops. Our Tallow is normally finished by the first part of June. I treated last year with Apigaurd right after Tallow but, before Cabbage Palm with very good results. I would be very careful of using Quick strips this time of year in Fl. It can be pretty hard on brood and queens when temps get into the upper 80s.
 
#35 ·
Sorry for not responding. I wasn't getting notifications. Fixed that. Anyhow the bee inspector said it was time to treat due to deformed wing virus and recommended hopsguard. Said it was safe for use during the flow. We are in nectar now but it only gets better into July. Then seems to slow a little until Fall. We make honey just about year round here!

So now knowing that my bees have DWV. Should I treat?
 
#44 ·
No, but llok out for sunshine and hot temps. Its 80+ in the hive... Try to keep them shaded if temps are going any higher. The problem is if you have DWV its highly contagious, and very bad for a hive, worse than the brood loss from MAQS..... if your real nervous, put your queens in a single frame nuc while you treat, then put just the queen back when done.. you get a break in brood and the MAQS perks.... then leave the singles as a walk away, or combine a cpl of them as walk aways.

Charlie
 
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