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#1 ·
Just wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Long Creek Apiaries in Parrotsville, TN. I'm having a really bad experience with them. He cashed my check and never sent the package bees. Besides the BBB of Eastern TN, what would be my best avenue to get my money back?
 
#135 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I also have ordered bees from LCA and have not received them yet. I was told when I ordered they would ship on 6-7-10 and they never arrived that week. I called, wrote e-mails, and finally was able to contact them in about a week. They told me they had not received payment for the bees and thats why they didn't ship them. I assured him my check and processed through the bank back in April and I would be glad to fax him a copy or scan and e-mail it. After some digging through his papers he found where I had paid and promised to ship on 6-28-10 and still no bees have arrived, said his computer had not been updated properly. My wife was able to contact him again night before last and he had another week delay due to the high heat and is suppose to ship now week of 7-5-10 and we will see. Wish I had found this thread prior to April before I sent my check. Its not a huge lot of money to lose buts its just the idea of being ripped off like so many more people have been on this thread, not counting the who knows how many thats not on this thread.:no: Also its the aggravation of setting up the hives and planning on being off work to get the bees installed when they arrive. I would be ashamed to face the public if I had treated so many people this way as Long Creek Apiaries has. This would have to be a huge let down or discouragement if you were just starting out in the bee keeping hobby and these were your very first packages. I hate to see this happening in the bee world, well anywhere in the good old USA as far as that goes.

Well Beemaster01 I'm still here waiting with fingers crossed hoping to see some bees before its too late to get them established before winter if its not already. I have been nice and polite, tried to hold off typing on this thread but I'm only human, I cant imagine how mad some of these people are that have waited over a year or since last year. If your not going to send them I wish you would just go ahead and tell me so I can pull the hives back in to storage before they just sit out empty and go to waste and rot, I work too hard on them just to see them go to waste. I hope I see some packages before you get your hives all sold, are you planning on packing up and moving out too? It is going to be very difficult to ever recommend your business to anyone no matter what kind of quality bees your have, I don't care if their super bees ( your ultimate bee). Your not that far away and I'm down there several times a year anyway, I cant wait to see your operation and I will be by for a visit.

Mike Smith
Louisa Ky.
 
#136 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

You wont be the only one mikeS trust me!!! Wayyy too many people!! In this situation they say what comes around goes around!! Wow and you was nice enough to give the guy time and all he was doing was giving you excuses like he done everyone else!...Thats sad right there!!! It will be alright Tenn isnt that far from ky!! ;)
 
#138 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Wow, I'm blown away by this thread. Such a sad situation all the way around.

Beemaster01, I don't have a dog in this fight. I've never ordered anything from you nor had any prior dealings with you. But maybe I can offer you some helpful advise. It sounds to me like you got in over your head with debt and now you're trying to sell all your hives in a desperate attempt to cover your personal debt as well as to issue refunds to your business clients. But what if, instead of doing that, you tallied up the number of packages you owe to customers then used the adult bees from the hives on a 1 hive to 1 package ratio, using the hives' own queen for the package queen, then added the hive box with the brood to the hives you don't have to use to fill these orders with and sell the remaining hive equipment (top covers, bottom boards, etc.). That would allow you to fulfill all your current orders (provided you have less than 150 orders to fill), and the remaining hives would have lots of extra brood so that they will have a population explosion just in time for the fall flow. That would allow you to get a good fall honey harvest which you could use to pay down your personal debt and then if you still have any debt left you could then sell as many of the remaining hives as you need to in order to pay it off. Unless it is your intent to purposely rip off these people (which would be fraud; and to be clear, I do not believe that is your intent), it seems like this would be the fastest way possible to square things up with the most people since you wouldn't have to wait for the hives to sell before squaring things up with the people who already paid for their orders. Anyway, that's my advise, what I would do if I were in your shoes, but I'm not in your shoes so maybe I don't know all the details.

The only other thing I can do here is pray for you, all of you that are involved here, and I will.
 
#139 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I finally got my bees (2 packages) and installed them on Thursday 7/1/10.

Just checked them, both queens were released, 4 of 10 frames were fully drawn in each hive and the bees were so gentle that I don't think I needed a smoker or veil.

At this point, if I would have received an email, call, or whatever to tell me the bees were going to be late, I would be a very satisfied customer. Of course, its too early to see how they perform, but I'm relatively happy now.
 
#140 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I have filed my official complaint with the US Postal Service for non delivery of goods. I have had three promised delivery dates for two packages of bees and still have not received any bees or an e-mail or phone call. I will cancel my complaint at the post office since it is for non delivery of goods if I receive my bees or a refund of my money.
 
#141 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I also ordered from Long Creek. My ship date was suppose to be around the Third week of May. I didn't recieve my bees till July 1. I had called and was nice about everything with him. Hard to contact though. I installed my bees, only one package, which were very gentle in my opinion, because this is my first hive. It was kind of frustrating me, but I know the bees are be very productive, but I would have to think twice about dealing with a delivery with them again. I would have to pick up ONLY to insure that I received them when I wanted them. I am out there every day now watching, and they just work and work and work. I was getting worried about not receiving on time and when expected. I am going with Don from Dixie Apairies in Georgia for my next package. I am also going to try others on the RBA lists. Sorry to hear about all the problems. I am just glad to receive mine. FINALLY
 
#143 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I hate to say this but you folks must be gluttons for punishment to keep dealing with this outfit. Wise people try to not only learn from their own mistakes but also the mistakes of others, but if you want to be receiving your package bees in July, order again next year. But please stop complaining about it. :no:
 
#147 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I hate to say this but you folks must be gluttons for punishment to keep dealing with this outfit. Wise people try to not only learn from their own mistakes but also the mistakes of others, but if you want to be receiving your package bees in July, order again next year. But please stop complaining about it. :no:
wdcrkapry, I don't think it's a matter of people having bad experiences and not learning from them. More precisely, it seems that people who have been screwed over in the same time frame are seeing the thread and chiming in. I think anyone who has read this thread will avoid LCA like the plague.
 
#144 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I too am still waiting. David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries has $560 of my money, ordered first of May, 2009.

Today I received word from the TN Better Business Bureau that said, "The BBB has made several attempts to contact the business regarding the above referenced complaint. We regret to inform you that we have not received a response from the company."

I post this only to authentic reports of others and to indicate that it is happening to a lot more people than have written here in the last two years.

It is incredible that David Winters/Long Creek Apiaries can take your money, give you nothing, and stay on the internet doing it to others.
 
#148 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Just on Principal alone I would Hire a lawyer and Sue his pants off him. I would spend 1,000 dollars for the 500 lost Just to put him out of buissnes.
If I am not mistaken, here in the state of Tennessee three of his creditors can file bankruptcy for him.
 
#146 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Well Im not out 560 but I wish I had seen this thread before I sent him my 197.00 last April. I wish you good luck on any recovery, its too late here for the bees though and I doubt if I see a refund.
 
#149 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I would sue for damages beyond the money lost and in washington state the courts can go after 40 percent of earnings for 35 years. This guy needs to be put away from reading the posts he could be charged with a class c felony and wire fraud. if buissnes was done via the internet. or mail fraud if buisnnes was done via US mail. both have a ten thousand dollar fine per acurance and 10 years in prision.
 
#152 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I need to add to my reply above that LC does not owe me anything and I have never had any dealings with them, never met the fella or talked to him (other than on this forum).
 
#155 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

So sorry to hear that you and so many more are "still" having issues with this guy. I'm just really lucky to have gotten reimbursed from him... only after I threatened him with the Federal Government. I had gone through all the things you have mentioned and got no where. If you think about it, it is mail fraud since I sent him a check through the mail from an ad that was published in a magazine that Dadants puts out that I received through the mail. By the way, give Dadant's a call.. they publish his ads and because of my complaint, pulled his advertisment until he resolved the issues with me. Not sure if he is still doing ads through them or not, but worth a call. Anyway, I don't think he would want the Federal Government knocking on his door any time soon. Last he told me that he was going to file for bankruptcy and no one would get their money. From a little investigating I did, he has another apiary not to far from where he is set up in TN. Can't recall just now what the name of it was, but if I think of it, I'll let you know. He is a scam artist at it's best and really needs to be stopped. Hope you all get your money back, cause it doesn't look like he'll ever deliver the bees. Good luck and let me know how it turns out. The BBB and Consumer Affairs people should still have my complaint that I filed last year. If you need to have that info let me know and I'll email it to you.
 
#157 · (Edited)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

RE: LONG CREEK APIARIES/WINTERS APIARIES
MY YEAR WITHOUT HONEY BEES

I am a humble beekeeper who likes my privacy, however, looks like many beekeepers are in the same ‘beehive’ of being swindled out of money and honey bees David Winters promised to send. This is my experience, and I would like to share it with you.

This is my first year without honey bees, because of David Winters. I ordered 7 packages from David Winters in February 2010 and sent him a cashier’s check for $740.00, which David Winters cashed 3 days later. I was promised delivery of bees on numerous dates from the 1st of May through the 14th of June, 2010, when I finally canceled my order. I demanded a full refund. I hired an attorney to send a demand letter. My attorney has received no response from David Winters to date, and David Winters has ignored the demand letter, and I have no refund.

I have been swindled out of $740.00, not to mention the expenses for long distance phone calls to David Winters, and the costs relative to receiving package bees and preparing healthy hives. I have built up a very good client base for my honey products, and David Winters has cost me this business and income for this year. I have paid an attorney and incurred additional alternative costs and time to recover the money David Winters stole from me.

David Winters does not answer his phone or reply to emails. David Winters has insulted me with a number of arrogant emails, false claims of personal problems, and continues to remind me that shareholders are not liable for Long Creek Apiaries debt.

First, David Winters personal problems are not my problems and further, I feel these are private matters.

Most importantly, as a business owner and a former investigator, a shareholder who pierces the corporate veil CAN be held personally accountable and liable. I would like to point out that FRAUD is not dischargeable, under any circumstances. A shareholder can be held personally liable.

I have been doing business with David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries for several years. For the past two years the Russian bees i have ordered from David Winters have died. All of them. Beekeeper error or problem supplier? Queens were clipped when I did not order clipping. Delivery dates were never on time. Confirming a delivery date was impossible. 3 queens were sent to the wrong delivery address and they sat in a mailbox in 90 temps. Receipts for payments were never sent, emails were rarely answered and David Winters was very hard to reach by phone. The Russians Winters claimed and advertised as pure Russians, are not; they were and are hybrids. David Winters falsely claimed that he was a member of the Russian Honey Bee Breeders Association. Before I realized the bees were not pure Russians as David Winter’s claimed, it was too late, I had already placed my order and sent him money.

I have been keeping Russian bees since I started beekeeping. Russians are very winter hardy, mite resistant and good honey makers. With good management practices and knowledge of Russian bee characteristics, a beekeeper will do well and the bees can survive harsh northern winters. I have had much success. There are many variables, but I did not have the honey bee losses until I started ordering from David Winters. Because Russians are hard to come by, I ignored all the warning signs and that is my fault and my error.:doh:

It is hard to get bees now. There are crashes and weather problems. The costs for packages and queens are going up, unless we raise our own. Our customer’s, families, and friends ask questions more than they ever did because of all the press about honey bee losses. It is hard work whether you are a hobby beekeeper, a side liner or a commercial beekeeper. A beekeeper really never gets paid for what we do. We keep wild stinging things in a box just for fun.:)

Under the current state of honey bees, for me, it is hard to understand another beekeeper, David Winters, stealing, and swindling from me, another beekeeper. :scratch:

David Winters full name is William David Winters. David Winters also has another website, WINTERS APIARIES, for which he is advertising sales for 2011. The website in July stated plainly that Winters Apiaries was A Long Creek Apiaries, Inc. Company. That has been removed. There is a different address, but David Winters phone number.

For every statement David Winters has made on this forum and by email to me relative to his personal problems regarding divorce litigation or hinting bankruptcy, these claims are false. I have checked David Winters claims through the appropriate agencies. (see below)

I may not recover my money or bees that were stolen from me, but I do have alternatives, and actions I can take so that other beekeepers do not follow in my disappointing footsteps. I would like to explain what I have done.

FILED COMPLAINTS WITH THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES:

*Office of the Attorney General Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs –online or by mail

*Phone call to E. Ross White, Asst. Director Tenn. Div Consumer Affairs (above) Direct phone #: 615-532-8278, I picked up the phone and call him. Mr. White told me that the Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs would like to receive more phone calls and complaints like mine. Mr. White asked me to encourage anyone i knew with a similiar complaint as mine to call or file a complaint with their office.

*Us Postal Inspection Service Mail Fraud, Memphis, Tennessee-online or by mail. This office asked me to encourage anyone i knew with a similiar complaint as mine to file a complaint as i have.

*Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection-online only

*Internet Crime Complaint Center (FBI based organization)-online only

*Better Business Bureau of Tennessee-online only

OTHER THINGS I CAN DO:

*Cocke County General Sessions Court-File a civil judgment against Long Creek Apiaries-phone # 423-623-8619, it will cost me $170.00 to file.

*Cocke County Sheriff’s Office, Newport, Tennessee - I can place a phone call and report a theft of my money.

* Have an attorney send a demand letter to David Winters.

*Contact David Winters Attorney, Mr. Clyde Dunn, phone number 423-623-5756. His name and phone number are a matter of public record.

*Contact his wife’s attorney, To dispel David Winter’s claim that his wife will soon own the company. I will not post his wife’s name, I don’t feel this is appropriate. As stated by David Winters, the attorneys number is 865-637-0484.

* Petition for and obtain a Full Faith and Credit Judgment in my state. This is available to me and is recognized and enforced in the State of Tennessee.

* Send an email or contact a Tennessee newspaper. - I can send an email or contact a Tennessee Newspaper about my experience.

*American Bee Journal- send an email and reaffirm what others have. They will not run David Winters ads until he redeems himself with all customers.

*Bee Culture Magazine-send an email and reaffirm what others have. They too will not run David Winters ads until he redeems himself with all customers.

*Department of Agriculture, Tennessee State Apiarist, Mike Studer- I can send him an email or letter about what happened to me.

*Russian Honey Bee Breeders Association- I can send Charlie Harper an email about what happened to me.

*I can report my experience to my local beekeepers association, if my association has a website; I can encourage them not to place a link to Long Creek Apiaries or Winters Apiaries website.

*I can report my experience to my supplier.

*I can report my experience or make a comment of my experience to an organization/website that carries links to Long Creek Apiaries or Winters Apiaries.

PUBLIC RECORDS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ME:

*U. S. Bankruptcy Court, Eastern District of Tennessee, Greeneville, Tennesse, phone number 423-787-0113, press 0 for assistance. I just asked them to do a search under David Winter’s name or Long Creek Apiaries, and they told me whether he has filed for bankruptcy or not(he has not as of 9-22-2010), and if he does, I can call in the future and they can advise me of the status of the case.

*Tennessee Department of State, Tennessee Business and UCC Fillings for Corporate papers filed for Long Creek Apiaries. Website:
http://www.state.tn.us/sos/bus_svc/. Online, I can view and print off Long Creek Apiaries Cooperation Corporate papers and history. I selected ‘business information search’ in the box. UCC filings are liens filed against a particular company. Long Creek Apiaries has no liens currently filed.

*Cocke County Tennessee County Court Clerk, phone # 423-623-6176. I requested the status of a divorce between David Winters and his wife. This is public record. David Winters filed for divorce June 4, 2009. As of the date of this post there are no settlement discussions on the table, the wife has not asked for the business and there has been no court/attorney activity on this case for sometime. David Winters claims about divorce settlement are false.

I am willing to help or answer questions relative to my post, just send me a pm.

Best regards to all,;)
riverbee

Long Creek Apiaries, Winter's Apiaries, David Winters, William David Winters
 
#159 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I have been doing business with David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries for several years. For the past two years the Russian bees i have ordered from David Winters have died. All of them. Beekeeper error or problem supplier? Queens were clipped when I did not order clipping. Delivery dates were never on time. Confirming a delivery date was impossible. 3 queens were sent to the wrong delivery address and they sat in a mailbox in 90 temps. Receipts for payments were never sent, emails were rarely answered and David Winters was very hard to reach by phone.
Ok...I've got to ask. Why did you continue to do business with him?
 
#158 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Thanks for your post Riverbee1 I will follow up on the contacts you posted. You went to a lot of time trouble making this post, thanks for your effort.
 
#160 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

ATTENTION GUESTS VISITING THIS FORUM: There are 17 pages of entries, but here is the critical information. Of 50 different people that posted here responsible for 165 posts, 28 are not or have never been my customers. Of the rest (22) that are my customers, only 8 have not been filled or refunded. Bottom line is that if you remove all the non customers and customers whose orders have been filled or refunded, then the 17 pages suddenly becomes about 3 pages more or less (a total of 18 posts). I understand that if you are one of the eight (one is too many) you probably are angry. At no time have I ever said that refunds will not be made. I must wait until litigation with my soon to be ex-wife is resolved.
 
#162 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

At no time have I ever said that refunds will not be made.
beemaster01,

While you may not have said that "refunds will not be made", last October you told your customers:

"No bees will be shipped to anyone complaining here. It would just be another chance to post a negative remark. It is tempting to take a year or two off (take a long vacation)"

see posting #66 http://www.beesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=471992&postcount=66

Guests should also note that this thread was started on
08-12-2009, and from the numbers you provide, 2/3 of the complaints have been resolved... We can only guess at the amount of money owed to the other third.


It looks certain that "Days of our Hives" will be picked up for at least one more season...


 
#164 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I'm in the third thats not getting the refund and I would like to know what the weather has to do with refunds?

I understand weather plays a big role in farming including bee keeping. Farmers don't get paid in advance for corn, hay, tobacco, cattle, etc. They don't have to worry about sending out refunds because of weather. When they have bad weather they take the hit on it not the customer.

I would gladly donate my refund to see your operations including your web site shut down completely. I hate to see you keep doing what you did to me and others to beekeepers, especially new ones that look so forward to getting their bees and getting started.

Might want to look into getting a job to settle up with your customers. Your customers have to work to afford to buy the bees from you.
 
#165 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Yes I have been very patient , I even gave him another chance to redeem his debt to me this season, the second time he promised on many different dates that i was next, that he was filling 2009 orders before he filled any orders he took this spring of 2010. But then I found out that he filled a few small 2010 orders instead of my 2009 order for 10 packages... heck I even offered him the chance in the winter 2009-2010 to send me payments in increments, only to be ignored. until I got a confirmation e-mail for the delivery of 10 packages of bees in Feb. 2009 to be delivered in May 2010. I'm sorry but I'm at the end of my patience, I didn't air my dirty laundry on this forum, to see if he would actually follow up on his promises, but as we all know this man is not a person who knows how to communicate, or be sure that the customer comes first if you are ever to do business with him
 
#166 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

In addition to running his apiaries, I am sure that he also runs a Satellite/Satellite Internet under something like the name of 'Wild Blue'. I have seen advertisements in a hobby shop that has the name "David Winters" on it. I am sure that David Winters is not a common name, and certainly not a common name in Parrotsville.

Mr. Winters, I would give up trying to defend your operation, as well as your reputation. Your reputation among even the local clubs is bad as I have heard horror stories from them as well. You have tried to fight your battle, hitting below the belt at times, and I must say you have been sunk like the Bismark -- fighting a battle where you are outnumbered and where you have made people's hopes, aspirations, and lives living hell.

Also be aware of this one
http://caucasianbreeder.com/

May I also add he clips all the queens he sells, even if you don't ask. I ran into this the first and only time and final time that I ordered from him. Clipping is cruel and inhumane to the queen itself.
 
#167 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

THAT IS NONE OR YOUR BUSINESS.
beemaster,

Most people would agree with you that any relationship issue is a private matter. Most people may also wonder why you were so willing to make your divorce public on Beesource.

Since my soon to be ex-wife will soon own the company (which is what she wants), you should contact her lawyer Aisha Rahman, at (865) 637-0484.


As for this, in reference to you clipping all of your queens:

Question: You must be one of those PETA people, what are you doing on a beekeeping forum?
PETA has nothing to do with it, as you know.

Don't most of the knowledgeable beekeepers and your queen-breeding peers believe that clipping can result in queen rejection?
That's a rhetorical question... we know the answer.


I wish you had responded to this posting:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=585074&postcount=171

And this one:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=556890&postcount=137

Is "American Bee Supply" going to be your new business name?

If you are not doing business, shouldn't you remove or change your website on GoDaddy?


 
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