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What's going on with Hopguard?

32K views 103 replies 28 participants last post by  wildbranch2007 
#1 ·
Can anyone tell me why Hopguard is being blocked by states? Actually as of last year some states that allowed it now have restricted it. Mass is an example. I have been watching the Mann Lake site and the # of states is dwindling. Very frustrating!

:s
 
#59 ·
I believe that's right for Section 18s, Jim. I've been told repeatedly that Section 18s are intended to be temporary. They are for emergency use, in a suddenly-changed situation. Renewing such an exemption year after year after year doesn't seem to be the intent of the designation.
 
#60 ·
Here in PA the company sought the approval last year. The dept of ag went to the state beek association to ask if the assoc. thought it beneficial that it be approved. I was personally disappointed that the president at the time said no and that the reasons were that we should all just be treatment free and not need anything else other than what we have. I think each state's dept. of ag would have a different level of expected input from its state apiarist or association provided they have them, so the comment from Mr. LaFerney that those two opinions matter most in TN are not surprising to me.
 
#63 ·
The company's literature may be at fault.

Last time I looked (which was a while ago), it did not make clear repeated applications are needed if there is brood in the hive.

So, if somebody took that at face value, and treated a varroa infested hive that had brood just once, they could come back later and test for mites and conclude it didn't work.

During my own communications with the company on this issue I felt they were being deliberately evasive, there was just no way they would give me a yes or no answer as to wether repeat applications are needed in a hive with brood. Kinda felt they wanted me to "just buy it".

If this has resulted in important decision makers now feeling the product doesn't work, then hopguards own obtusification has come back to bite them in the butt.
 
#64 ·
I believe that Randy Oliver states that if a lot of brood is present you need to do Hopguard applications for three consecutive weeks for it to be very effective. It does work when there is little brood. I plan to use it when there is little, to no, brood.
 
#65 ·
Oldtimer, you're probably correct that hopguard's own communication may be causing them problems. I wonder if they are hesitant to talk about using hopguard in ways not included on the label due to legalities? Regardless, it appears that the treatment works with some tweaking and is relatively safe and non-toxic (to us and the bees). If this is the case then the bees and beekeepers in states where it's not allowed are losing out on a possible good thing.

At this year's or last year's association meeting in Montgomery it was stated that we only have a couple of section 18 permits that the apiary division can use and that they want to use them wisely. I was looking at the EPA website and it looks like the two section 18 permits are for coumaphos for varroa and shb. Are the permits for a "type" of pesticide or for a "brand" of pesticide? If the permits are for "type" then it seems they could do away with one of the coumaphos permits and use the other one for something else. Looking at other section 18 permits for other crops I see duplicate chemicals for them, too. I'm just trying to understand this a bit...anybody want to explain how this works...in regards to type or brand? :s

Ed
 
#69 ·
It is expected to be available by mid-summer. It's anyone's guess in what states that might be. It's hoped to be a long lasting enough strip that would work as a "one and done" treatment even with brood in the hives. We'll see.
 
#68 ·
That may have been me that mentioned a possible Hopguard II earlier. It was mentioned by one of the authoritative figures in one of the main meetings at the Auburn symposium. Seemed there were "chuckles" or something between the speakers while talking about hopguard so it may or may not have been said in seriousness. It seemed to be somewhat of a strange exchange...

Ed
 
#70 ·
Are they going to pursue full registration on this one, do you know, Jim? Seems odd to me to be building a business and developing a line of products like this that rely on emergency exemptions. I guess if it works, keep doing it, but it suggests to me that the product is only intended to be on the market for a few years.
 
#72 ·
I don't know but I would assume so. My information comes from a presentation given at the most recent AHPA convention. The impression I was left with is that they are currently in the registration phase as they indicated all their testing results have been very encouraging and they mentioned availability perhaps by mid summer 2013.
 
#71 ·
For someone who has never treated their hives, that being me, I am looking forward to using something that is not a chemical treatment and evidently does not hurt the bees. Although it is expensive I could justify using it on my hives as I'm not in the hundreds of hives yet. From the majority of reports it does seem effective if used when there isn't much brood, now if it could only be effective against mites in the unsealed brood that would be even better, although that may be stretching it.

I have been waiting and hoping for something like this to come along because I am so dead set against treating, but I have begun to realize I need to do something soon because I am beginning to see hive collapse with high mite loads this year after many years of just getting by. John
 
#73 ·
Re: What's going own with Hopguard?

If it did not work, my girls weren't told....they are doing great! i gave three consecutive weekly treatments last fall ending by mid October - temps in the mid 60's to mid 70 degrees. On the last application I just left the strips in. I am in the Appalachian Mountains and we have a bit more of cold weather to go I am pretty sure. Though today is in in the mid forties and they are pretty active. I will use the treatment again in the spring per directions and see how it goes....so far, very pleased.
 
#95 ·
Last year was my first year as a beek with a first year hive started from a package. In July I had 24hr mite drop counts in the hundreds, I treated with three successive Hopguard treatments. After each treatment there were more mites than I could count on the mite boards, the hive really took off. A week after the last treatment I got a zero mite count. The hive was thriving, then swarmed in October. (due to rookie management).
But overall I was satisfied with Hopguard and plan on treating my surviving overwintered hive (that a bought as a Nuc and never had any mite issues) soon.
 
#77 ·
Re: What's going own with Hopguard?

I cannot purchase in CT but I had a friend from MA give me some last fall and I used the strips in three of my production hives. All three are still alive and it's been a long cold winter! I just checked the Mann Lake site and Hopguard is still not available in MA again this year or CT. New York is though! Its getting closer. :)
 
#79 ·
I've been following this thread and it looks to me like the vast majority of people who have used Hopguard have positive things to say about it. I hope the good results with the product indicate that we may finally have a non-chemical treatment that will keep the mites under control and is fairly easy to apply. John
 
#80 ·
a post on bee-l from canada's Medhat Nasr, I'm not sure what the second 40% kill means for the method most people are using here ie 3 times at one week interval.

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1302&L=BEE-L&F=&S=&P=188880

Peter and others: I have a student just defended her M. Sc. last week. One experiment testing HopGuard showed that the efficacy is about 40% mite kill in the fall with a single application. Repeated experiment with 3 applications in the spring once every week yielded same efficacy (40%). Bees clean up and chew the strips within 4-5 days. Kill was high within 1-3 days max. HopGuard has potential if the application method modified.

Medhat

Dr. Medhat Nasr
Alberta Provincial Apiculturist
Pest Surveillance Branch
Research and Innovation Division
Agriculture and Rural Development
17507 Fort Road NW
Edmonton, AB T5Y 6H3 Canada
 
#81 ·
I did not know they were working on a longer lasting strip. I think if they could come up with one it would be a very good product. I have used the product and that is really the only complaint I have is it just does not last long enough. You get a good mite drop the first couple days then its done. If they could get it to last just half a brood cycle that would be a big improvement. Then just two treatments should knock the mites back pretty good.

One good thing about hopsgaurd is it a contact miticide so you don't have to worry about temperature. Formic has such a narrow temp range that it is hard to find a good time of year to use it here in the S.E.
 
#84 ·
Organisms face two possibilities when faced with a selective pressure: adapt ("become resistant") or go extinct. Hopguard would be a selective pressure.

In general, the stronger a selective pressure, the more rapidly adaptation spreads through the species. Or the more quickly a species goes extinct. More people using a product more often puts a greater selective pressure on the species if that product causes harm to the target species.

Extinction is the certain end to each species, just as death is the certain end to each individual.

Given what I know and expect of Varroa, I doubt Hopguard will cause the extinction of them.
 
#85 ·
i think the method of action is related of the permeability of the exoskeleton of the mite (carapice?) is more permeable to acidic compounds than the honeybee and lowers the pH of the mite to lethal levels. The principle is the same as why organic acids such as formic and oxalic also work. I have heard a theory that for the mite to develop resistance to acids and pH changes would substantial and essentially would no longer be a varroa mite.
 
#87 ·
I have heard a theory that for the mite to develop resistance to acids and pH changes would substantial and essentially would no longer be a varroa mite. -the doc
Such a theory did not come from an evolutionary biologist, I'm confident. Evolutionary biologists are the ones who study such sorts of things.

I've heard similar beliefs expressed plenty of times before this. In my opinion, some folks like to believe such things to reassure themselves. What ends up happening remains to be seen, of course, but bear in mind that a number of organisms have adapted to survive in very acidic environments. If the mechanism of effect is what you describe, a simple mutation to reduce the permeability of the exoskeleton, or maybe just selection of the mites with the thickest cuticle on their exoskeletons, might be enough to provide "resistance" to such a treatment.
 
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