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Factors contributing to Swarms and Swarm Prevention

69K views 180 replies 23 participants last post by  Rader Sidetrack 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been thinking over the last few days that in order to compare the various swarm prevention methods, especially Checkerboarding and Opening the Brood Nest, I think it's worth making a list of the general stages (not considering the age of the hive) and factors in spring buildup that contribute to Reproduction Swarms.

This is what I believe happens as concisely as possible. If I have things out of place or just plain wrong let me know.

  • A couple of inches of capped honey around the outside of the brood nest is seen as the boundary of the colony.
  • Space is created in the brood nest by consumption of honey during winter, aiding in heating, and then during spring build up, generally moving upwards.
  • Due to lower temperatures, clustering continues, especially at night and so nectar is preferred to be stored in the brood nest.
  • Large amounts of pollen are available in early spring and this is stored in the brood nest to raise increasing amounts of brood. This is determined by cluster size.
  • Brood are often raised in batches during spring buildup due to limited space. Brood population can almost double with each batch. As the brood nest expands, gradually all stages of brood are present.
  • Wax making capabilities are very limited in late winter and early spring due to temperatures being too low and limited incoming nectar. So extension of comb is limited.
  • Expanding areas of brood, and storage of nectar and pollen in the brood nest by foragers puts pressure on the available space in the brood nest.
  • During a spring flow, empty cells are quickly filled by the foragers with nectar, before the Queen finds them.
  • Empty cells become less and less very quickly as they are filled with nectar. Quickly reducing the amount of open brood.
  • The Queen starts loosing weight due to laying less and less eggs.
  • With a large amount of young Nurse Bees, any very young brood start getting a lot of attention and large amounts of Royal Jelly is available to get deposited into these cells, making ideal conditions for Queen Cell building.
  • Once the brood nest is backfilled with nectar, and there is a large number of unemployed Nurse Bees, then queen cells are built.
  • Due to little space to store nectar, Nurse Bees are also full of nectar. This aids in preparing for wax production. (It is held on to as long as possible, in preparation for a swarm.)
  • The Nurse Bees are now ready to swarm as soon as weather permits.
  • Scouts start searching for a new hive location.
  • When ready to leave, a signal is sounded and bees (especially Nurse Bees) start flowing out of the hive, chasing the Queen out as they go to get her to leave with them.


Contributing factors to Swarming
So when looking at the stages in spring buildup it seems that the main issues in causing swarm conditions are backfilling of the brood nest with nectar, which then causes there to be large numbers of unoccupied Nurse Bees. Once there is a large number of unoccupied Nurse Bees, opening the brood nest may not be enough to prevent a swarm.

Checkerboarding attempts to get the foragers to store nectar above the brood nest rather than in it, by providing empty comb above the brood nest. Ideally this is done before nectar sources becomes plentiful. It becomes clear that this leaves the brood nest free from congestion and allows for maximum population. All stages of brood continue throughout the spring buildup. Ensuring there is enough open brood to keep large numbers of Nurse Bees occupied. The issue with Checkerboarding for those new to beekeeping is lack of drawn comb.

Opening the Brood Nest does not stop backfilling of the brood nest with nectar. Rather it tries to maintain enough space in the brood nest to allow for backfilling, while maintaining enough space for the queen to lay and to ensure that there is always open brood to keep Nurse Bees occupied. Placing empty frames or foundation in the brood nest encourages wax builders earlier in the season, but wax making uses extra nectar and likely requires higher temperatures in wax making areas, again using more nectar.

Conclusion
So based on that, it seems that deterring foragers from storing nectar in the brood nest in the first place looks like the best way to prevent swarms, produce a higher population and to yield a larger honey crop.


Thanks to Walt Wright and Michael Bush and to everyone else who contributed to the Checkerboarding verses Opening the Broodnest thread with helped in developing this. I certainly learnt much from it.

Hope people find this useful.
Matthew Davey
 
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#61 ·
john, i provided a drone escape by simply drilling a 3/8" hole in one of the boxes below the excluder,(if you plan on making the upper entrance the only entrance), the hole is plugged up nicely with a queen cage cork if you end up not needing it in the future.
 
#64 ·
Johno,
Made a mistake in my normal repro c/o timing post. Normally, the end of the first week of April. This season, three weeks early, or just after mid March. In a normal season, that would be the period of backfilling the brood nest. As long as I've been doing this, still have to stop and think about the 3 week periods (brood cycle) of the swarm process.

I agree with your reaction to Ace's recommendation to move to all mediums. Converting some of your honey supers to brood boxes would be taking a giant step backwards. You mention the weight thing, but that's not but part of the advantages of your single deep.
Off topic, here.
Walt
 
#66 ·
Walt I do prefer the deep bottom box, but was considering the weight of an 8 frme deep full of honey which is pretty heavy for an old reprobate like me, but does not apply to a brood box. As for the swarming impulse I started removing queens and frames and made nuc's from hives preparing to swarm around March 22 and continued doing the same untill the end of april with the 7 hives I had. Fearing winter losses I had ordered 2 packages from Georgia so those were hived on March 23. However the 9full hives I then had cast swarms from May thru August when the 2 new packages swarmed, fortunately I caught all but 1 which settled some 30 feet up in a nearby tree. So I really need to get a handle on this swarming thing
John
 
#68 ·
Brian I do not have any deep supers so I do not have any to lift, as for swarming you mean to tell me with all medium boxes you will not have swarming issues? I prefer the deep on the bottom with 2 med supers of stores for a winter config. and I find the Queen tends to go down into the deep come spring time
 
#69 · (Edited)
johno, that's how i am configuring here in on a ridgetop in northeast alabama.

the cool thing about that is, and if you've done away with your excluder,

you can move that first super down below the deep after your spring harvest, while adding emptie(s) on top.

your fall harvest removes that top one, and the one now on bottom gets moved up in late winter as the red maples start to bloom, and is checkerboarded with the remaining honey in the super that overwintered on top.

anyway, that's one approach if using a single deep and medium supers.

edit: i think walt referred to as 'a half a_____ reversal?
 
#71 ·
yep, it's when the first super has brood in it that you move it down. don't worry, you'll get a lot more honey once you get some drawn comb.

i did my last harvest mid september. that left the goldenrod and other fall blooms for the bees.
 
#72 ·
While I agree with the premise that backfilling of the broodnest is the main trigger for swarming, this happens because there is no overhead nectar storage space. The incoming nectar can't be put anywhere else...either there are no supers on, or not enough. Surely CB helps correct this problem, as does reversing, opening the broodnest.

But, there's another reason for swarming...aside from the repro swarm theory. Not all colonies are the same and they don't all march to the same drummer. Some colonies use swarming to requeen themselves. Oh oh...that aught to get him going...

Don't believe it? Is the propensity to swarm not genetic?? Are we not told that colonies with young queens will have a lower propensity to swarm? Didn't Root say that Caucasians would swarm at the drop of a hat...while he was at church? Don't Carniolans swarm more readily that Italians? Swarmed out when the Italians are just starting swarm preps? Aren't Russians just about the most swarmy thing you ever did see?

I find that some colonies don't respond to any anti-manipulations. CB them, split them, open the broodnest...as soon as they re-build their populations, they start swarm preparations again...even when the theoretical repro c/o date has passed. Now I've said it again...

So give them a new queen when they're one of those colonies.
 
#79 ·
lots of good stuff there michael, many thanks.

i also see cb'ing as a variation on the theme of ways to not let them run out of room.

the requeening idea makes sense too. it is interesting that many of walt's hives requeen anyway, but by supercedure and without swarming.

and yes, from what i've read, swarming propensity can vary in the same way propilization and other traits can.

(and there's no doubt that swarming from the bee's point of view means 'success!')

if you are requeening your less productive hives, 'because they may have swarmed', you might be selecting for bees that swarm less.

that, and maybe requeening caught swarms makes sense if one is concerned about swarming.

i'm ok with letting some colonies go into the woods, they can pay me back with drones.
 
#73 ·
Micheal, It can be true that swarming is genetic and still caused by multiple reasons. Genetic does not mean just two genes. there can be multiple gens that cause swarming and each would look different and happen for different reasons. Now I don't know one thing about the genes in a bee that effect swarming behavior. but I suspect it is not just a swarm or don't swarm situation. not in a bee that has 19 genes that determine sex alone.

So their very well could be a backfilled gene. a I wanna reproduce gene. and I just want to live in a different neighborhood gene.
 
#77 ·
In a way I agree. The suggestion was made as though no one would take it but it does eliminate the issue of a break between combs if that is a real issue. If one was in the experimenting mode you could set up equal number of hives with the break as those without a break using all medium equipment.
 
#80 ·
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Bee Hive/DeadHive014.jpg

I am sorry I don’t have a picture of the comb that was under this frame but I think most people can see the semicircle shape of the top frame and can believe if I say the bottom frame was another semicircle just like the top. The bees didn’t care that there were bars in the middle.
I conclude that two mediums are no different than one deep based on my experience. Bees are not that fussy. Your bees might be but I doubt it.
 
#83 ·
On the break issue, from what I understand (that one means I have seen info take it with a grain of salt) It is the strip of wood that causes the problem. Now for the grain of salt. I have not yet sen it be a problem in my bees. Others say they have. I do know one thing that became a problem for me. about mid summer the bees filled that second deep with honey. and it became a huge pain to move it to look at the brood nest. And in fact it was enough to cause me to put off inspecting the brood nest. This is enough for me to say. no more second deep at the very least. I may keep deeps at the bottom. but it is mediums after that.

The different size frames is also a pain. But I am thinking that once a bottom deep is set up and a brood nest. I will not be moving those frames anyway.
 
#84 ·
I do know one thing that became a problem for me. about mid summer the bees filled that second deep with honey. and it became a huge pain to move it to look at the brood nest. And in fact it was enough to cause me to put off inspecting the brood nest.
Would another super or two have been appropriate, so that mid-summer honey went in the supers and not in the broodnest?
 
#86 ·
Michael, I don't really know. With only having had one hive. I have only seen the one situation. I don't have a lot of seeing other things that might happen.

I started with a strong 5 frame nuc. I put it in a 10 frame deep body. I don't know if you have read my description of what I did in other threads on this group. but basically over the next couple of weeks I did a manipulation of the frames even in this bottom deep at first. basically it seemed to me that the bees took to drawing comb in empty foundation better. The result is I saw the brood nest expand very well. As soon as the foundation in the lower box was mostly drawn. I added the second deep. IT was all foundation at this time. again I moved some fraems from the lower deep up to the second in order to encourage them to move up. they did. so did the queen. As the bees drew out this second set of 10 frames the queen filled no fewer than 7 of them with brood. but then she moved back down to the lower box.

Should I have added another super on top at this time? The reason I ask is that as soon as the brood emerged from this upper deep. bees filled it with nectar.

I did add another box once I saw the upper deep was 80% full of honey. the bees where still slow about moving up into the third box (A med by the way).

With your comment above I am now wondering if I "Forced" my bees to store nectar in the brood nest??? I should have had that med on all along as well..
 
#89 ·
I did add another box once I saw the upper deep was 80% full of honey. the bees where still slow about moving up into the third box (A med by the way).
You were stymied because you could not move that deep frame of honey up into the medium box of foundation. It wasn't the bars that made the difference it was the fresh foundation. Try the same thing with all medium boxes only now you can let them build the honey cap in just the third box. Next season you can let them build a three medium brood nest and have a whopper or cut them down to a one medium brood nest. What ever the heck you want to do. You are not limited or stymied by having different sized frames.
 
#97 ·
Barry, this is as much an answer for you as it is clarifying I understand what Michael is saying.

He has a double deep brood nest. in the spring before dandelions bloom the bees are at the top of these two boxes. so rather than mess with either box he puts two med supers on above the two deeps. When the dandelions do bloom the flow is on at least to some degree. bees are bringing in nectar. but rather than putting it in the brood nest they are putting it in the space above the brood nest.

My question at this point is what prevented the queen from moving up and laying in those top two med? Excluder, timing they just don't ??? IN my case I could not get the bees to go into the med over but I had the whole foundation thing and my timing was anything but correct.

Anyway at dandelion bloom he then goes back and reverses the two deep brood boxes. this moves the queen down away from the honey giving her room to move up but not get into the honey supers. From then on as a rule it is a matter of just keeping space in those med supers. Not always. If they insist on filling the brood nest anyway there are other measures necessary. this may have been what I saw in my hive last year and had no idea what to do with it. I was not thinking back filling. swarming etc at all. I was of the thinking all I could expect of a first year hive was for it to build up and be ready to act like bees next year.
 
#98 ·
My question at this point is what prevented the queen from moving up and laying in those top two med? Excluder, timing they just don't ??? IN my case I could not get the bees to go into the med over but I had the whole foundation thing and my timing was anything but correct.
This is a concern to some, but perhaps not to MP. That's why I asked him to clarify. I use SC in my brood, but not in my honey supers, so I don't want my queens to get up into my honey supers and raise brood. This will create other problems. I could see adding two medium brood chambers above the brood pre dandelion bloom. I use mediums for everything.
 
#103 ·
No Daniel you had a brood nest. It can be from one medium (the size of a nuc) to a whopping three deep hive. I want to hear what Michael does for a reversal with that medium in the mix.
Here is the way I see it: If you are a big operation and have lots of equipment of different sizes you can do anything to maximize production. If you are a small backyard beekeeper you are better off not complicating things with a whole lot of different equipment. Keep it simple and don't worry about not getting 20 pounds extra of honey. If you need another 20 pounds of honey get another hive. Most people want you to have two anyway.
 
#109 ·
Ace,
Yes, #80. Since you didn't deny that the pic came from a deadout, will add a few comments. My point was that one shouldn't draw conclusions about NORMAL characteristics from effects seen in a crippled or dead colony. Does that make good engineering sense?

You go on to offer that the picture shows no indication of reservation of the colony to expansion through the interbar gap. I contend the opposite.

Understand that the expansion dome/arch of brood is a general characteristic of the expanding broodnest. Outside that arch is the honey reserve in the shoulders/corners of the box. What you have captured in the comb appearence is the delay timing or hesitation at the interbar area. They died or absconded at that point. (They typically leave a small band of honey across the top of the arch.)

A snapshot in the growth period is not proof of the delay, but the fact that growth was stopped long enough to capture it in residual comb after the demise of the colony does indicate some time passed. Had they been healthy, they might well have increased the population enough to grow across the gap in a week or so.

The delays are short in the population build up period of spring. Where it becomes problematic is later in the season when the broodnest is receding. If the broodnest is elevated in the stack, growing downward often results in completely failing to jump the gap. (They are not growing into broodnest heat rise.) This leaves the brood nest higher in the stack at fall preps.

Those of you moving to all-medium configuration will see this tendency sooner or later. By adding more gaps in the stack, you increase the probability of some seasons having the fall broodnest elevated at mid season.

Walt
 
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