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Checkerboarding

108K views 297 replies 74 participants last post by  wcubed 
#1 ·
Hi:
I realize this might be a little early for this question but here goes anyway. In the spring when you checkerboard a hive, reading between the lines of post here, you use drawn comb. What if you don't have drawn comb? I tried using foundation and the bees just extended the combs, in the area where there was no brood, on either side of the foundation and man what a mess I had. I use only 8 frame medium boxes with 3 boxes as the brood area. Do you checkerboard any boxes above there? There seems to always be brood in the 4th box
Thanks
Barney
 
#206 ·
Re: Checkboarding

sc has it right. He's been doing it for more than one season.
I seldom have a full box of capped honey in the upper shallow. They may cap three or four full frames on the fall flow, but any open cells are moved to backfill the broodnest at closeout.

I normally leave the five center frames immediatly above brood in the deep where they are. We are doing this early in the season, with quite a bit of cold weather yet to come. I want the cluster to have good contact with overhead honey, and I have not learned to enjoy feeding bees. When stimulated by incoming pollen, they can grow through those five frames of honey quite quickly.

The other four frames of honey in the lower shallow and any capped honey in the upper shallow can be alternated with empty added comb to make two shallows of CBed for the top.
Any extra capped honey can be placed in outside slots without affecting results. Perhaps I shouldn't have gone into this. It just makes it sound more complicated than it really is.

Walt
 
#209 ·
Re: Checkboarding

Walt,
I think I ended up with surplus because of the late movement of supers to different hive to equal stores on all. I could have extracted a little late season but didn't fel it was worth the hassle.

Thanks for the explanation of handling the extra supers of stores if you have them. It helps me understand alot. That problem puzzled me this year, I am glad to have clarification.

Steve
 
#212 ·
Re: Checkboarding

Wow, 22 pages is a long read...
I'm a newbee and I didn't reverse my brood boxes this year. I eliminated the bottom one because it was empty because I want to go with all mediums. This was a second year hive and it did not supersede.
What I am having a hard time understanding with the CB method is the claim "doesn't interrupt the brood chamber" especially in the north. If you are going into the top box and manipulating the frames in an full, empty, full, ect arrangement isn't that an interruption of the brood chamber? I can't see a big difference between CB and reversal as a newbee. Both seem to me as giving space for brood expansion.
 
#213 · (Edited)
Re: Checkboarding

Yeah, 22 pages is a long read, but this post from Walt is the crux of the matter:

"...To prepare for CB in late winter, enough honey must be left in the fall to have a box of capped honey overhead [above the brood nest boxes] prior to serious expansion in late winter/ early spring. CB that one box of honey, and maintain empty comb at the top the rest of the way. CB is a one-shot deal. Do it once in the early season, and forget it. Just keep up with empty supers...."

All bolding and words in brackets [ ] are mine.

Reversal is the process of swapping BROOD boxes. Checkerboarding is the process of opening up the HONEY boxes immediately above the brood nest. Yes, both are brood nest management techniques, but reversal disturbs the existing brood nest and CB'ing does not. If I am remembering what I've read in Walt's articles correctly, CB'ing also invites the queen to expand the brood nest upward while reversal does not specifically encourage that expansion.

--DeeAnna
 
#214 ·
Re: Checkboarding

Reversal is the process of swapping BROOD boxes. Checkerboarding is the process of opening up the HONEY boxes immediately above the brood nest.
OK thanks for the clarification. I can see where there may be a glitch for us northerners. In real cold weather the brood chamber may go right to the top of the hive seeking warmth. I suspect that the bees are hopeful to get a long enough warm spell to go down and retrieve the honey below and bring it up around the cluster so they don't starve.

If I did this in the early spring or late winter I would be surely messing with brood frames unless my bees are doing something nobody Else's bees are doing.

Next winter I will go through with two mediums on top and one deep on the botttom and see if they do something different in the spring. It will be second season for one hive and third for the other. If they both don't race to the top I might be able to try checkerboarding on one and not the other just for an experiment. Although as I read though this topic checkerboarding is meant more for the third season yet there was a statement many post back that said second season is when they supersede. Maybe I am not remembering correctly.
 
#215 ·
Re: Checkboarding

DeeAnna gets it. Follow her lead.
Have tried upper entry and screened BB. Was not impressed with either. But my drivers are not standard. For me, any extra time or expense must be compensated with increased honey production. Any specialized equipment is a burden on both time and money, and if there is no noticable improvement in production, there is little chance of it becoming permanent.
The management techniques that I promote are oriented to getting the most honey production with the least effort.

Walt
 
#216 ·
Walt,
Makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
I run all mediums on my hives and am planning to overwinter my bees in three mediums. To be ready to CB, would it be better to have the two boxes with stores on the bottom and empty frame box on top, or full on the bottom and the two top ones both with five frames of honey frames in the middle? (I run ten frame boxes)
Thanks
Serge
 
#219 ·
As I understand this method there must be a full box of honey on top. If that is not the case then you can't checkerboard. You have to wait until next season and go through the winter with four boxes (mediums) in the hopes that they will not go up into the fourth box.

It would seem to me that there is a point of diminishing return. You are leaving more honey on the hive through the winter that they don't use. The other thing that concerns me up here is manipulating the hive in the cold season (late winter, early spring). Unless I am still not clear on how this works.
 
#220 ·
We recommend that you DO NOT use CB at other periods of the season. In the same way that CBing interferes in backfilling during the swarm prep season, at other times the colony needs to backfill as part of their routine population control. In my area, with an extended dearth in midsummer, the broodnest is reduced to limit consumption of accumulated stores. CB really hurts them in the fall. Their preference for storing overhead keeps them from getting the broodnest backfilled for winter. Bad! Bad!

Walt
 
#221 ·
New bee here in the Portland Oregon area, still raining here which is odd but other than that it sounds close to the clime of yours (last frost date of April 15th). I see a lot of talk of mediums but in Walt’s writings I see 1 deep and two shallows. I have been getting equipment used from all over since people found out I was bee keeping and have a 10’ stack not in the “yard” at this time. All of it different (MB must be laughing). I am finally getting to my questions: Appears that it is a deep and two shallows that are manipulated for the CB then a huge stack of supers. Is it not possible to extract the supers so that the bees do not have to crawl 6’? Why the tall stacks? Does it matter what size I use for supers? I don’t think that the super size is really any issue or did I miss that? Even at 6’3” I don’t see the point of working above my head. I have had 100% of my hives swarm this year and have suspected it is because of all new plastic F.
 
#223 ·
Valid question. It is almost axiomatic that greater honey production generates taller hives. When you understand the sequence of accumulation it's easy to see that the higher stack is difficult to avoid in a short flow. If we put in some local timing references for CB here:

CB in late Feb. -----Increase brood volume until repro cut off - 2nd week of April.
April 7 +/- *****Generate wax makers for "main flow". New wax May 1.
Main flow -----All of May and sometimes into mid June.

Applying these dates to hive height for overwintered production colonies:
Feb to April 7 ..During this period the colony is growing brood volume and storing raw nectar overhead. The total height may reach 6 feet with at least a couple supers of nectar filled to cell depth provided.
Apr. 7 to May 1:
This period is dedicated to generating the work force to store winter honey. Wax makers are available at the end of this three weeks to extend cells and cap honey. Nectar processors are also reared to pre-dry nectar. Now they can store honey at efficient rates. We call the end of this period and the start of wax making "Main flow."

During the "lull" of April very little nectar is added at the top. Incoming forage is used primarily to feed the colony. The bulk of the foragers are marking time until the support troops are in place. When the wax makers and driers are ready, the foragers go to work, big time.

Now to hive height: At the beginning of main flow, the CBed colony already has some overhead stored nectar, and brood nest reduction has been in process for 3 weeks. That potential winter honey must be cured, cell depth extended, topped off with predried nectar, and capped. At the same time, the foragers are pouring it in upstairs. The wax workers can't keep up with the needs early in the flow, but they will typically catch up in three or four weeks. I suspect (without a convenient way to verify) that the CB effects contribute to this condition. Permitted to apply their instincts and swarm, the colony would need less wax makers to process resupplied honey, or a smaller percentage of the total population. Blame the problem on the extra honey generated by CB.

The hive height is a function of increased production. There is only a short window late in our flow that would warrant cycling finished supers through extraction and return. If your objective is honey production, you can learn to live with tall hives.

Walt
 
#224 ·
Thank you Walt. Very good and interesting info.
Here in our Maritime Northwest part of Washington state, we can easily get the first pollen from early flowering trees like hazelnuts coming in sometime in February. Last year it was January. Does it make sense that I should CB sometime in January? (the upper temps can reach into the 40s easily in January)? I think the apple blossoms come in similar to your area, in April. We also can get a lot of dandelions in April/May and of course a lot of fruit trees blooming around the same time. We can get a lot of rain still around this time which doesn't help the bees. Our main flow is Blackberry in July. I am hoping that with CB I can take more advantage of the dandelion and fruit tree nectar in April/May. With a later July honey flow, and a little bit different weather/nectar pattern, what do you think I should expect different and do different with the CB method?
Thanks
Serge
 
#225 ·
hi all. i read through 23 pages and still have a couple questions. i understand how CB (like reversal) opens up space above the brood nest and prevents swarm-inducing congestion. but i did not see anywhere what is the significance of alternating empty comb with honey comb...why not just empty comb? what about the alternating frames of honey makes this system more effective? or is it that you are just trying to use up the unused overwinter reserves which might otherwise crystallize? also, a question about swarm control in general, if we prevent our colonies from swarming, what prevents them from growing ever larger? are folks here religiously splitting at some point in the year? or does the queen just stop laying more eggs at some point? and what prevents idle bees from wanting to swarm at that point? thanks for helping a noob understand.
 
#226 ·
>hi all. i read through 23 pages and still have a couple questions. i understand how CB (like reversal) opens up space above the brood nest and prevents swarm-inducing congestion. but i did not see anywhere what is the significance of alternating empty comb with honey comb...why not just empty comb?

This is being done well before the flow in late winter. They would starve. The idea is to not deprive them of food while creating an illusion of the lack of food.
 
#227 ·
=Michael Bush;686370This is being done well before the flow in late winter. They would starve. The idea is to not deprive them of food while creating an illusion of the lack of food.
That confuses me too. If you create an illusion of the lack of food why would the queen want to increase the brood nest which would require more resources? Spring can be a killer up here. The honey needs to be close by and the brood needs to be concentrated not spread out. Cold nights can do them in if they are all spread out. I think the northern bees have figured this out because they survived. I think if you move bees back and forth (north and south) you always have to move them back and forth and I would suspect at the same times. My guess is if you stop that cycle either way you will loose most of them.
 
#228 ·
>"This is being done well before the flow in late winter. They would starve. The idea is to not deprive them of food while creating an illusion of the lack of food."

so there is nothing magical about alternating empty/full frames, one just needs to have some space and some food in some combination. for us yankees, keeping the empty frames somewhat clustered should help keep brood concentrated and warm during our harsh springs.

>"That confuses me too. If you create an illusion of the lack of food why would the queen want to increase the brood nest which would require more resources? Spring can be a killer up here. The honey needs to be close by and the brood needs to be concentrated not spread out. Cold nights can do them in if they are all spread out. I think the northern bees have figured this out because they survived. I think if you move bees back and forth (north and south) you always have to move them back and forth and I would suspect at the same times. My guess is if you stop that cycle either way you will loose most of them."

so how do you open up a NY broodnest acebird?
 
#230 ·
thanks ace. that does make sense. but i've read on this site (if i understood) that the bees deliberately backfill the 'natural' broodnest below the honey dome to induce a swarm when they think there is a sufficient number of bees to do so. i thought that was the point of checkerboarding and such, to maintain continuous open space adjacent to and above the broodnest to prevent the swarm. anyway, if you don't tweak the broodnest, what if anything do you do for swarm management? thanks
 
#231 ·
You are talking to a new beek. That being said I have yet to have that problem. The first year I lost the bees due to moisture in early Spring. They got wet and all died in a pile on the SBB. This last winter was so long the bees barely made it. It was like starting with a package. This year I will leave more honey and based on what I see is left in the Spring I will either throw an empty box on just under the honey or try some form of this checkerboarding. If at least halve of the top box is empty I might do nothing until they fill it in and then just throw the supers on. It is my understanding that if the queen has space to lay brood they won't swarm.
 
#232 ·
A question for Walt....

If I recall correctly, you and your articles indicate that you overwinter with a minimum of 1 super of honey.
So, at the end of winter, if one were to look at your TOP deep brood box, would we find a layer of capped honey across the center frames
( Frames 3 thru 7 ) ? Or would we find brood cells all the way to the top bar of the deep ?

If there is no honey across the top of the brood box, that would explain why there is no need to manipulate the brood chamber. There is only capped honey in the super above and by then alternating empty drawn frames this satisifies the bees need for free space.

Here on the west coast, mild and temperate, most of us do not have a super of honey on for the winter because there is forage year round. However at the end of January, there is always a layer ( 2-3 inches high ) of capped honey across the top of the deep box.
In order for ME to be successful with nectar managment, I must either substitute empty frames into every other brood slot in the top box, or go thru and scrape out the capped honey on every other frame. I have done just that and it works just fine as long as I add supers before the nectar flow.

Fuzzy
 
#233 ·
Been out of touch for a couple days.
Working backward from Fuzzy's question:
Locally, the overwintered cluster is maybe 5 frames of bees - not necessarily centered in the deep basic brood chamber. We take care in the fall to insure that their deep is backfilled at brood nest close out (sometimes feeding.) Located over feed/nectar, the cluster stays in the deep. When they start building brood in mid winter, they typically expand laterally to fill the deep. With a single shallow of capped honey overhead, they typically open no honey in that shallow and swarm preps/issue all takes place in the single deep. The center deep frames are filled during expansion with brood, bottom to top. end to end. If we don't break up the honey in the shallow, swarming is a lock.

In the double deep, they maintain their capped reserve in the upper part of the upper deep. That makes it tough to stop swarming in the double deep. One of the reasons we shifted away from double deeps. Reversal does get brood above the capped honey reserve, but is time-sensitive. With a group of hives at different stages of brood nest expansion, reversal should be done piecemeal for best results.

Removing cappings on alternate frames meets the basic concept of CB. But it would be easier if you had a super of honey at the top at that point of the season.
Walt
 
#234 ·
Brood staying in the bottom up here? I am not buying into that. My concern is even with a full super on top of two deeps they are going to be right at the inner cover in the spring with honey below. Anybody else in the north witness anything different?
 
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