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Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

36K views 119 replies 32 participants last post by  westernbeekeeper 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all,
I have come across a deal about an hour and a half away from me, where someone moved in to a property, and the lean-to shed had about 100 used deep hives bodies with frames and comb, all complete and in good condition. So, basically, he talked to me and said I could have them for free. I went through them and found no sign of foulbrood in what remaining comb there was, as mice have completely decimated most of the comb. So I'm thinking I will go and get all these supers, and I will pitch the comb and old Duragilt foundation, sterilize all frames and hive bodies, and then either keep them for expansion of my operation or sell them. There is a huge stack of telescoping covers and bottom boards that he said I may have also. What are your thoughts? How would you sterilize the boxes and frames? Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
I'd sure use the boxes. If the frames had metal wedges driven in to secure the Duragilt they might be more trouble than they are worth to reuse. Considering a new wood frame is about the same price as the foundation I have never been too excited about putting a new foundation in an old frame. Give it a try with some and see how it goes.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, Jim. It does have those metal strips along the sides, but I have tried just punching lots of the comb out, and it comes out easy as pie. No trouble at all. Like I mentioned, most of it is Duragilt, but there is several handfuls of crimp-wire. There is also a few wax moth cocoons.
 
#4 ·
Chuck the frames. They are probably dried out and brittle anyway. Not worth using, when new are more likely what you want or like and not that expensive. Looking at the fact that the boxes didn't cost you anything you hav e saved quite a lot that you can use for frames and foundation.

Scorch the boxes by standing 4 or 5 upside down on a bottom board. Place a sheet or two of newspaper on the bottom board. Dribble kerosene around on the inside walls of the stack of supers, wetting the newspaper. Light the newspaper from the part sticking out the entrance and stand back.

This will create a chimney fire. It will roar and shoot flames up into the air above the boxes. Be mindful of the wind. Approaching from the side from which the wind is blowing carefully place a telescoping cover on top of the supers. This will dampen the fire, if the wood isn't burning too much.

Knock the stake over w/ a shovel and rolol the supers around on the ground. The flames should go out. You could douse them w/ water.

That's how I was taught to scorch supers exposed to AFB.

A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch, running it up and down the inside of each box, especially the inside corners. I doubt that you7 can get as good a heat as w/ the chimney. To be really effective one should be able to scrap charcoal off the inside of the boxes.

Good luck.
 
#8 ·
Sqkcrk, I have been taught how to do this too, except with gasoline instead of kerosene. I forgot about using that method as an option. That's my best bet so far. As far as the frames, or all of the equipment for that matter, they are in near new condition. No brittleness or dryrot, very structurally sound. I would have a hard time chucking the frames, since they are in good used shape, but I will still be thankful for the boxes even if I have to pitch the frames. It is free, after all.

how can you tell there is no sign of foulbrood in old combs?
Rob: I have looked at boxes for sale with old comb with foulbrood. Sunken cappings, very small poor old brood pattern, dried out larvae flattened on the bottom of the cells, etc. Could be symptom of something else, though, I guess. But your never know for sure. I have bought a few boxes here and there that looked way worse than these, and after a safety sterilization, I put them to use. 2-3 years later, not a sign of disease in any of those (now active) hives. I used the old frames, too.
 
#14 ·
That's how I was taught to scorch supers exposed to AFB.
Don't the boxes on the top get chared more than the one on the bottom?
A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch,
The hand torch is a much hotter flame but sterility is based on time and temperature. If you take the time and carefully cover all the areas it will be effective.

Using gasoline is foolish and may not be as effective as kero.
 
#10 ·
Wow! At the price (free) I'd sterilize and take my chances, provided I could get bees cheap, too (splits, swarms, etc). My hive was built with old family equipment that had been in storage for 30+ years, and I didn't have many problems with the frames. Although, as sqkcrk pointed out, a few were brittle and warped. A few others had wax moth and wood boring insect damage that made them useless.

I've sterilized boxes with a torch. It wasn't bad with six. One hundred would be a nightmare.

Just my first-year beek $0.02.
 
#11 ·
For the boxes, use one of those charcoal starting baskets and when the charcoal is good and hot, stack 5 or six boxes around it and place a metal cover on top of it all and let it cook. What you've done is create an oven that will kill any FB and it's easy.......
 
#27 ·
The following quote was taken from Richard Taylor’s “The How To Do It Book Of Beekeeping”:

47. How To Sterilize Hives

“…..The equipment having been scraped, stack three hive bodies (five or six if you are dealing with shallow supers) upside down on an old bottom board. Sprinkle kerosene (never gasoline) lightly on the inside of this stack, especially the corners. Now crumple three or four sheets of newspaper and drop them in. Next drop a rumpled sheet of paper that is burning well. The stack immediately becomes a roaring chimney. After a few seconds slap a board or old cover over the stack and with a stick block the entrance below, instantly suffocating the fire. The hives are now sterilized and need only be aired out to get rid of the kerosene odor. They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
 
#28 · (Edited)
They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
This part doesn't make sense to me. The kero smell indicates that the kero seeped into the wood and did not burn all the way. That shields the heat from the wood just like it would if you sprayed the boxes with water before drizzling them with kero.
The advantage of a torch is the flame is hottest at it's tip so it should sterilize (term used loosely) without as much destruction. The con is it might take longer but if you used a weed burner like what was shown in the link I don't think time would be an issue.
I can see where the flaming chimney would be used by an Apiary Inspector for its convenience. Perfectly understandable.
 
#30 ·
I have used the stack and burn method in the past. I never felt like it gave an 'even' distribution of heat for sterilization purposes. I like the weedburner (did 400 5 frame nucs and a bunch of used pallets with it this summer).
This looks like the Harbor Freight one Ace referred to. http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
Looks like it would do the job .I think I will pick one up for a backup.
 
#33 ·
This looks like the Harbor Freight one Ace referred to. http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
Very simular. Mine is a solid can shaped flame thrower and works well for burning weeds against the buildings that I have to do. I don't use the pull trigger. I set the valve for the size of the flame I want. When the LP tank is full pulling the trigger can be a hair burning experience. My wife is deathly afraid of the thing.

Rader Sidetrack, I am NOT a bee inspector. If my wording is incorrect or confusing please state the proper wording for my post. I will edit it and be eternally grateful.
 
#31 ·
Okay, here is what Wikipedia says:

Because of the persistence of the spores (which can survive up to 40 years), many State Apiary Inspectors require an AFB diseased hive to be burned completely. A less radical method of containing the spread of disease is burning the frames and comb and thoroughly flame scorching the interior of the hive body, bottom board and covers. Dipping the hive parts in hot paraffin wax or a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) also renders the AFB spores innocuous.[13] It is also possible to sterilize an infected hive without damaging either the structure of the hive or the stores of honey and pollen it contains by sufficiently lengthy exposure to an atmosphere of ethylene oxide gas, as in a closed chamber, as hospitals do to sterilize equipment that cannot withstand steam sterilization.[14][15]
And here are they sources they cite:
13. Dobbelaere W, de Graaf DC, Reybroeck W, Desmedt E, Peeters JE, Jacobs FJ (August 2001). "Disinfection of wooden structures contaminated with Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae spores" J. Appl. Microbiol. 91 (2): 212–6. doi:10.1046/j.1365-2672.2001.01376.x. PMID 11473585

14. Robinson. Gas Sterilization of Beekeeping Equipment Contaminated by the American Foulbrood Organism, Bacillus larvae. The Florida Entomologist. JSTOR 3493642

15. . JSTOR 3493642
Bacillus spores are basically like little seeds. Once conditions are right, they will pop off their hard shell and start growing again. They are also the reason that pressure sterilization was invented. They are hard to kill.

So, burning, dipping in wax or bleach, or exposing them to EtO would all work. I think it might be a little hard to get your hands on some EtO, but maybe that is just me. :popcorn:
 
#32 ·
Some States used to have ETO Chambers. Some were on trailers so they could be taken to where equipment w2as in need of sterilization. ETO is carcinogistic, so it went out of common usage.

I'm surprised Wikipedia didn't mention irradiation.
 
#36 ·
I took a portable propane heater to mine and it was a time consuming experience. I have a weed burner as well but never tried it on used boxes. That Harbor freight weed burner really howls when you pull the trigger! I was going to do some the ‘Lauri’ method and will need to break that bad boy out again. Anybody know how the glues (Titebond) hold up to that heat?
 
#37 ·
Anybody know how the glues (Titebond) hold up to that heat?
The way to intentionally disassemble a cured Titebond joint is with heat. From the Titebond FAQ page:

What is the best way to disassemble a glue joint?The key to the disassembly of glue joints is weakening the bond. For Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III, raising the glue joint temperature with a heat gun or a blow dryer will reduce the glue's strength. Steam from an iron may also work.

http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx
 
#40 ·
Bleach oxidizes quickly and you would need to rinse first as well I would imagine but the salt left behind might be good for the bees w/o rinsing but it would corrode any metal somewhat. I would think wax dipping would be good except the boxes are painted already and I would think uneven absorption might cause issues.
 
#41 ·
Well, here's an update;
I went and picked up these deeps, and there are exactly 130 of them, all with frames, plus 20 solid bottom boards, and 20 telescoping covers, all for FREE (minus the $50 in gasoline to go get them). I am looking at it all, and yes, I am thinking I will just burn the frames. It would take most of forever to sterilize 1300 frames! there are alot of dry-rotten and just bad like someone predicted earlier. :) I can get 1300 deep frames from Mann Lake for right about $3000. Does anyone else know of a cheaper place?
 
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