Top Bar Design

[Adam Foster Collins]

I'm working on a design design for top bars.

I can certainly understand the interest in simplicity, but I wonder about 'brace comb' and the lack of strength in the combs. It seems common for bees to create brace comb along the first several inches of each side of a bar - then it seems that people have trouble with the comb breaking off in handling or hot weather.

What about short 'sides' to turn top bars into abbreviated frames? I'm thinking about short, perhaps 4 inch extensions on each side descending from the top bar on the same angle as the side of the hive (maintaining bee space between this extension and the hive, and then connecting the ends of the two extensions with a length of foundation wire.

I have seen a number of designs for making frames, but I think that bottoms on fames seem unnecessary, as bees seem not to like to connect to the bottom. On the other hand, with no connection, the sides won't be supported enough structurally. I'm thinking a wire connection will create the structure, while the bees will likely build comb right down over it.


Thoughts?

Adam

[Cacklewack]

It's really up to you in weighing out the cost/benefits of putting in the time, energy and resources to add the type of framing your referring to. I have little trouble with my top bar hives in quickly cutting the brace comb from the sides of the hive and removing the bar without breaking it. The only time I generally have issues is when I'm in a hurry and don't take the time to cut it properly.

In my mind it's not worth the hassle of adding anything more to the bars.

Matt

[Sam-Smith]

A word of caution, I actually tried this on a few bars, the bees make a mess when they like to cross comb these side extensions to each other, the combs are pretty strong, I even wiggled a brood comb a bit like heavy paper the main thing will be getting straight comb, and I found out from this forum that you just need other straight comb and put a blank bar between when you do comb renewal, this way you can keep them all workably straight with little effort, honeycomb is another matter

It is a bit of work when you start a hive because the bees tend to cross comb a bit but once its going its easier. Even foundation-less lang hives have to put a blank frame between 2 nice ones.

Sam.

P.S. Simplicity becomes more important if you plan to build 20+ hives, 30 top bars each 600 top bars?

[Adam Foster Collins]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm only planning to build a few, so I was thinking that the extra work might be fun. However, it may not be worth it.

Sam, do you have any pictures of the design you tried with sides?

Also, what do you guys think of the best overall box size for a TBH? This is one I'm torturing over now. I have one based on the backyard hive "golden mean" design, which is 29x18x11. But that seems small to me... What is your experience?


Thanks again,

Adam

[bigbearomaha]

I have built some top bar frames, mostly for cut outs being transferred to a KTBH. Otherwise, frames really are not necessary.

The best tool I learned about to use in a tbh is the serrated bread knife. simple, gets the job done without tearing things up.

Big Bear

[Sam-Smith]

Originally Posted by Adam Foster Collins

Also, what do you guys think of the best overall box size for a TBH? This is one I'm torturing over now. I have one based on the backyard hive "golden mean" design, which is 29x18x11. But that seems small to me...

I consider the 17" topbar is nice, you might want a bit more length. Better biger then smaller.


Sam.

[Adrian Quiney WI]

Other useful tools I adopted, when I ran a TBH last year, were those extra large grilling tools: I used the tongs to lift up any chunks of wax and comb that fell to the bottom, and the big spatula to reach forward and carve off any side attachments the bees made.
The advantage of these tools were that I could reach thing in the hive, while my hands were out of the hive.

[raosmun]

I made one TBH last summer (mid-july) for a swarm. This one is the angled sided type. The bars are 1 3/8 X 19" of 3/4" shorts with a 1/8"+ saw kurf on center length, poured in wax. Length is 47 1/4". The other two I am making are nomore than 47 1/4" lang. deeps, here I am making the bars 1" wide and will use 3/8" spacers or standard deep frames (with or without foundaion), or any other modified frame/topbar. The reason for going to spacers: I can remove the required number of spacers and place a super on top of the TBH or just use the spacer/bar arrangement in the area for the super.
Trying to make something simple and flexable as possible. I am getting tired and too old to be lifting 50>90# boxes full of honey/bees!!
P.S. I put a swarm in the TBH mid-july and they have comb better than half way compaired to an adjecent hive (another swarm) started about two weeks before in a lang. with only 5 full frames now, don't think they'll make it.

[Sam-Smith]

I guess more info is better, I use 1-1/4 wide topbars with 1/4" spacers for honey comb, less then 1-1/4 is imho to small, I also tried the wax kref type topbars, and the pop-sickle stick kind. I like the triangles, it gives a lot of depth to encourage straight comb and is pretty durable, I cut them on a table saw, if you get the angle and gate right you can cut perfect triangles with one setting, just flip the wood over and cut again, sort of like /\/\/\/ with the 7/8" stock I am using makes about 7/8 tall by 1-1/4 wide triangles. I bent and flattened a closehanger to form a J cutting hook then I tempered with a blowtorch, this makes a really nice attachment cutter that you can gently pull towards yourself along the wall of the hive, bees hate the thing btw


Sam.

[Michael Bush]

The only time strength is an issue is with brand new comb full of new honey. Once the wax has aged a bit, it's not an issue. I try not to mess with such combs. Also, of course, you need to make sure it isn't attached to the sides before pulling it out...