Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory
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  1. #1
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    Default Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Mark Lynas spent years destroying genetically modified crops in the name of the environment. Now he's told the world – and his fellow activists – that he was wrong. A historical discourse.


    http://www.marklynas.org/2013/04/tim...piracy-theory/

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Perhaps he was paid for this and is tired.

    Here a speaking of what happened to a farmer who believed genetic modified corn was good for his cattle and who lost his existence, his milk cows dying on him and the manure contaminating all his farmland.
    He is one of the reasons the genetic science companies left europe`s experimental field research because his experience showed the reality.
    He even went to prison a time for his actions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehJe-4hjR2c
    zone 8a, sc, dadant square, wax comb, tf, 4 years beekeeping
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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Sorry Sybille I do not understand the beautiful German language.

    From another link:

    "GM crops that incorporate Bt, a natural pesticide approved for organic farming, have reversed the treadmill. They allow for less pesticide use, less toxicity to friendly insects, the return of pest predators, and the need for even less pesticide. As one expert put it, they run the treadmill in reverse.

    Pro-organic, anti-GMO activists refuse to acknowledge this clear win for GM technology. They would rather use toxic “natural” pesticides and harm the environment, including the bees, than use the best methods currently available. Quite the opposite of the bumper sticker, if you love the bees, you will not buy organic."

    https://theness.com/neurologicablog/...ling-the-bees/

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Thanks, Eduardo, nice learning, IPM, yes, why not since something will be used always.

    What┤s Bt exactly? O googled but did not found a good description.

    The farmer in the video was a great fan of genetic manipulated corn and fed this to his cows which stomachs were distroyed and they all died. This was because the toxins in the corn plants were not diminished by time as the company claimed they would.

    But nothing to do with bees.
    zone 8a, sc, dadant square, wax comb, tf, 4 years beekeeping
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    What┤s Bt exactly? O googled but did not found a good description.
    In the context I understood that they are bacillus thuringiensis.

    "During sporulation, many Bt strains produce crystal proteins (proteinaceous inclusions), called δ-endotoxins, that have insecticidal action. This has led to their use as insecticides, and more recently to genetically modified crops using Bt genes, such as Bt corn.[4]" source: wiki

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    @SiWolKe, Bt is a toxin made by the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis. These toxins are somewhat species specific (article), and for example, the Bt toxin used in most Bt GMO's is relatively harmless to bee's while quite toxic to common pest species. It is totally harmless to humans - our digestive tract breaks it down, and even if it enters our bodies, we lack the type of neuronal transmitter it targets. Organic farmers use Bt as well; but they spray their crops with the bacteria, which has a far worse environmental impact in terms of the impacts on non-target species - GMO'd plants have to be consumed for an insect to be poisoned; spraying kills anything susceptible in the area.

    In terms of Gottfried Gl÷ckner, you've bought into a "story" largely regarded as fiction. He received several payments from syngenta - not (as he claims) as compensatino for dead animals, but rather because he was a contract farmer who was paid to test the grain in field trials. He claimed that several of his animals dies after eating a specific strain of GMO corn and that he had lab testing done to show the problem was Bt and poor nutrient content in the GMO grain. However, independent testing by the Robert Koch Institute failed to show this, and the one animal he provided for testing died from contaminated (with botulism) silage with no evidence of Bt toxicity. Contrary to his claims, he was never jailed for his advocacy - he was jailed for beating his wife. In other words, if you look at sources other than Gottfried Gl÷ckner himself, his story falls apart really quickly.

    Reality is that most animal feed is made of GMO grain - if GMO grain were truly toxic, there would be more than 12 dead cows on 1 German farm. There would be hundreds of millions or more dead cattle - plus similar numbers of dead pigs, sheep, chickens, etc, etc, etc.

    At the end of the day there has never been scientific evidence published showing GMOs to be any more harmful than a conventional crop. A few studies have cropped up making claims about cancer and whatnot, but most of them were later retracted for being fraudulent or poorly designed. In contrast, systemic reviews of - literally - hundreds of billions of consumed GMO meals find no evidence of toxicity.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Perhaps he was paid for this and is tired.
    It would get ugly if we all suggested that anyone who offered a view that disagreed with our own were dishonest.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Hey beemandan, obviously you must work for Monsanto LOL the same old story if you can not stand up to the debate you destroy the speaker. Comes from rules for radicals from Saul Alinski.
    Johno

  10. #9

    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Hey beemandan, obviously you must work for Monsanto LOL the same old story if you can not stand up to the debate you destroy the speaker.
    A sad commentary on the state of our 'civilization'.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Thanks guys.
    I appreciate the corrections because only with discussions the truth may come out.

    My neighbor has an organic farm, breeding cattle, milk cows and planting the food for them.
    Now you informed me well so I┤m able to discuss this with him. Thanks again!
    zone 8a, sc, dadant square, wax comb, tf, 4 years beekeeping
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  12. #11
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    I've worked for Monsanto and now Syngenta, I guess that makes me a horrible person? You can believe what you want, but that doesn't make it true, such as the earth is flat. I rely on the real science of the matter, such as the biochemistry behind the subjects at hand. Also, correlation and causation are not the same as most people think, for example, relayed to me by my brother in a lecture on the matter. If you graph the use of glyphosate vs the increased rate in cancer over the years, it correlates quite nicely, so you could then logically conclude that glyphosate is the cause. But, if you then graph the increase of organic food consumption vs the rate of cancer increase it actually correlates even better than the increase in the use of glyphosate, so therefore it's actually the organic foods causing the increase in cancer we are seeing based on the argument of correlation alone. Numbers don't lie.... but of course this may or may not have anything to do with the actual science behind the issue, once you start understanding that, then your conclusions become more plausible to me.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    JRG 13 here in Portugal there is a great gap around the mechanisms of construction of scientific knowledge. One of the greatest fallacies is precisely the confusion between the correlation between two phenomena and the notion of cause and effect.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Take naturally grown corn, raise your own animals, and taste the difference. I don't need some "big-name" telling me what is, or what is not, common sense.

    Come on over the eating is fine.
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  15. #14
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    I've been raising my own meat since I was a child. GMO feed has nothing to do with how good it tastes - corn is the problem. Predominantly corn feed = bland meat; that's been appreciated by all the farmers I've known for decades. You want good tasting meat, graze your animals and/or feed them mixed feed. Large commercial operations - conventional or organic - feed corn because it is cheap and animals grow fast on it. The price you pay is in the quality coming out of the abattoir.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    If you graph the use of glyphosate vs the increased rate in cancer over the years, it correlates quite nicely, so you could then logically conclude that glyphosate is the cause. But, if you then graph the increase of organic food consumption vs the rate of cancer increase it actually correlates even better than the increase in the use of glyphosate, so therefore it's actually the organic foods causing the increase in cancer we are seeing based on the argument of correlation alone. Numbers don't lie.... but of course this may or may not have anything to do with the actual science behind the issue, once you start understanding that, then your conclusions become more plausible to me.
    I've had two different seed sales give me that exact same pitch. That's a very strange coincidence.

    My issue is with residues in humans. The same two salesmen told me that glyphosphate breaks down in soil in mere hours. How then does it show up in human urine when the same study didn't find it in the tapwater? I will keep reading but don't want to get into this debate...again.

    Everyone has their own opinion. What I do wish is that we had the choice to buy or not buy knowing the GMO content of our food.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    I think what these guys are sampling are the glyphosate's metabolites which are the chemicals it has broken down into, The other problem we find is that chemical technology has increased to such an extent that smaller and smaller amounts can be found in samples. Twenty years ago we talked about parts per million mostly now the talk is about parts per billion and parts per trillion soon I would imagine. The other point is medical technology has also advanced and more and more conditions are now being diagnosed that were overlooked before, when I was young people died of old age but not anymore they are all diagnosed as dying of some cause or the other so statistics have changed over the years. Moderation is Key so moderate your beekeeping and live longer LOL.
    Johno

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    I've had two different seed sales give me that exact same pitch. That's a very strange coincidence.
    its also inaccurate - age-adjusted cancer rates are down - not up - over the past 20 years. So it would be more "accurate" to say GMOs = less cancer (accurate in that you'd be matching data to a trend; still inaccurate as correlation != causation). Absolute cancer rates are higher, but that's because the average age of our population is increasing, and cancer is an age-associated disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    My issue is with residues in humans.
    Why? The toxicity profile of glyphosate and its degradation products is well known, and it is a very safe chemical - indeed, it is the least toxic of herbicides available to farmers. And yes, that includes the "natural" herbicides used by many organic farmers...some of which are among the most toxic (and slowest to degrade) of pesticides still legal to use. Frankly, if you're worried about pesticide risk, GMO is a sign of safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    The same two salesmen told me that glyphosphate breaks down in soil in mere hours.
    Its half-life in soil is about 6 days, which means half is gone (on average) 6 days after treatment, 75% is gone after 12 days, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    How then does it show up in human urine when the same study didn't find it in the tapwater?
    Which study? Meta-analysis of several studies shows that urine levels tend to be below what is expected given legal limits for occupational exposure and allowed trace amount on food.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Everyone has their own opinion.
    But some of those opinions are fact-based...others are not

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Talked to the organic working farmer yesterday and he said there is a big difference if Bt are sprayed on a plant in a directly affected situation to kill bugs or if it introduced genetically in plants.
    zone 8a, sc, dadant square, wax comb, tf, 4 years beekeeping
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  20. #19
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Yes, there are big differences. Bt (the bacterium, or purified protein) sprayed onto plants is much worse - you kill susceptible non-pest species as well as pest species. GMO'd Bt plants express only the toxin, usually inside of the cells on the outermost layer of the plant or root (cuticle), and insects must eat the plant to be killed the toxin. I.E. GMO's specifically deliver the protein to pest species; sprayed forms are indiscriminate and kill any susceptible species. Sprayed Bt also has a higher theoretical risk of driving the evolution of Bt-resistant pest species.

    B

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Time to call out the anti-GMO conspiracy theory

    Yes, there are big differences. Bt (the bacterium, or purified protein) sprayed onto plants is much worse - you kill susceptible non-pest species as well as pest species.
    MMH weren┤t there Bt specifics for different insects?
    GMO'd Bt plants express only the toxin, usually inside of the cells on the outermost layer of the plant or root (cuticle), and insects must eat the plant to be killed the toxin.
    And does not the toxin then go away after a time if it┤s just a layer?
    I.E. GMO's specifically deliver the protein to pest species; sprayed forms are indiscriminate and kill any susceptible species.
    And how many are susceptible? Thought is aren┤t there different proteins used?
    Sprayed Bt also has a higher theoretical risk of driving the evolution of Bt-resistant pest species.
    Is it not the other way around? GMO will not go away, being inside the plants forever. Spraying is once or once again if there is a pest.

    I┤m wondering why the state still propagates seed banks and conventional farmed lands if all is positive with GMO. A last resource to have diversity once again?
    zone 8a, sc, dadant square, wax comb, tf, 4 years beekeeping
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