Getting frames drawn in late summer.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Colorado
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    Default Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    I was reading Randy Oliver's article on what syrup was most efficient to get frames drawn
    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ligh...ng-foundation/

    And it got me thinking. Does anybody shake their double deeps down into single deeps and add a box of foundation and a few gallons of syrup to get them drawn? Seems like a good idea for when the flow is winding down in late July. I can always use fresh wax and extra drawn frames. I worry about plugging the brood nest and causing a late swarm. Experiences?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Wayne, WV, USA
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    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    Around here if I do that I HAVE to take precautions against robbing, as we have a mid-summer dearth. That means no essential oils added to syrup, if using inner covers no open notches, etc.

    I don't know if you have a dearth in Colorado or not...

    Good luck!
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
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    82

    Default

    At least where I'm at we stay pretty good until the sweet clover ends around the third week in July. I run robbing guards all year round on all my hives anyways because there are some guys about a half mile away who run some pretty thuggish blond Italian bees that are always sniffing around, even during the heaviest flows. Your right though if I do do this I'll have to keep a closer eye on the robbing situation.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
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    1,124

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    "Seems like a good idea for when the flow is winding down in late July"...

    It doesn't seem like a good idea to me, especially in Colorado. What is your intended purpose of harvesting comb in late July? I would not consider that proposition as a best management practice unless I was in a tropical climate. You can always harvest a few drawn combs and replace them with foundation but that works best in the spring during a honey flow.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  6. #5
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    May 2016
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    Colorado
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    Default

    Well I guess my purpose would be to build up my comb inventory for easier expansion in the spring as well as rotating old nasty brood comb out of the hives.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    2,472

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    Nhaupt2 - where are you located?

    I am south of Denver, and once our flow ends around mid-May, there is little-to-nothing until the next year. Meaning the robbing pressure can go on for many months.
    --shinbone
    (7th year, 13 hives, Zone 5b, 5500')

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
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    82

    Default

    I'm in Broomfield, so maybe an hour north of you. I'm in a pretty ideal location. I have hundreds of full grown maples for early pollen and nectar in the suburbs around me. A few hundred acres of open space that turns yellow with clover intill mid July, irrigated alfalfa farms around and a huge pumpkin farm that kicks into gear mid summer right down the hill from me. Not to mention all the suburban flower gardens and irrigates medians that kick blooms untill august. My dearth isn't untill August. Sure could use some snow and rain though or that clover may not show up to good this year.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
    Posts
    916

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    You may be interested in what Ray Marler suggested in this thread in which I asked about making comb.
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...uot-Drawn-Comb

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
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    1,291

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    I run 4 comb building hives from early June to late July, all the comb gets built during the dearth. Just keep them stimulated with feed. 1:1 up to 2:1 doesnt seem to make any noticable difference. 1:1 is easier to mix in the field. June splits are usually used to do the comb building so they basically are in a single deep starting out. The end of July seems a little late to get started but who knows, try it.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
    Beekeeping Facebook Page

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
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    Default

    Thanks fivej, sounds like Lauries fly back split almost.

    Rwurster, are you saying you make an even split in June and then give them a box of foundation and feed, or taking 5 frames and filling the rest of the box with foundation and feeding?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    I split my 8 frame colonies (two deep brood boxes) into two 8 frame singles then super them with 6 foundationless frames along with two drawn frames in the middle of the super as a reference.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
    Beekeeping Facebook Page

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    5,237

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    I worry about plugging the brood nest and causing a late swarm. Experiences?
    I'm in a different part of the country, but this above would be a concern for me. Barring time consuming manipulation, it is extremely difficult for me to get new comb drawn later in the season. At that point the bees seem to have shifted to a winter preparation mode and they are hesitant to burn their resources drawing out new comb. Initially they will backfill as much of the existing drawn comb as they can, including the brood nest, before drawing out too much new comb.

    I'm sure there are several methods that will work to achieve your goals, but not doubt they will require a fair amount of your time devoted to manipulation, along with a watchful eye. I prefer to work "with" the bees normal instincts and behavior, at the best time of year. If I'm going to schedule time to increase my inventory of drawn comb I would plan on doing it in the spring and early summer months, when the bees will happily work with me to achieve my goals.

    Not saying you can't make this work in a dearth, but it would be so much easier on the beekeeper and the bees to mark your calendar earlier in the season. I think you would get a lot more bang for your buck.
    To everything there is a season....

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
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    1,291

    Default Re: Getting frames drawn in late summer.

    Swarming is always a huge consideration. However, if you split and then the dearth hits and you stimulate with food (early to mid season) they tend to draw rather than backfill and swarm. Late season I could see them plugging themselves out and then the problems start. I've never had problems with swarming in my comb building hives and I've gotten hundreds of combs drawn out in this manner over the years. Its wise to routinely check the hives also, pester them once a week for 2 months then let them recover mid-late summer for winter prep.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
    Beekeeping Facebook Page

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