Mann Lake pf 120 - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,968

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I will throw some more swarms on them, sell them as small cell nucs, and make plenty of $$$ to buy you some more Tacos.
    I was trying to remember why I started out with these worthless frames. It was because of the small cell tale I was gullible enough to believe as a beginning beekeeper. I’ve learned since then to experiment on a small scale first to test for yourself if something works or not.

    Oh sure, these frames are fine if you’re on the package treadmill every year to replenish your losses. Packages have no choice but to draw them out after gallons of feed. In my experience, most swarms prefer to ignore them rather than draw on them even in a good spring flow. Once you’re smart enough to get off packages as your main source of deadout replacement, they’re worthless.
    The Oxen is slow, but the earth is patient!

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Greenbrae, CA, USA
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    I got some of the plastic frames for free a few years ago and tried them out. Hated them. Too flimsy and I don't think the bees liked them as much as wood with foundation. I've tossed most out.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
    Posts
    1,309

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Quote Originally Posted by bison View Post
    I got some of the plastic frames for free a few years ago and tried them out. Hated them. Too flimsy and I don't think the bees liked them as much as wood with foundation. I've tossed most out.
    I think in this conversation it's important to note _which_ variant of plastic frames you were unhappy with, they aren't all created equal. I wont buy any more of the ML PF-1xx series, but, we have had great success with the PF-5xx series frames. Not all plastic frames are created equal.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    3,921

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Time in my operation is at a premium, so I gave up on making frames (for the most part) many years ago. I've tried the PF-120 and after a number of years in service, they slowly start failing. I think the foundation is good (albeit slower to get drawn than wax), but the plastic frame is not. I've broken lots of "ears", snapped them in half in my extractor, and ran my hive tool through them as well. Bottom line, I will not be buying any more of these unless it is to cut out the foundation to put it in a wooden frame, but then there's the time issue...
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Butler Co, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Most of my brood frames are the deep black pf120's. My daughter had the job of painting extra wax. Then I ordered mediums, natural color. They were extremely fragile in the ears.

    The experience made me try acorn. Was very satisfied.
    Habitually learning...

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    I was already to pull the plug on a 100 sheets of plastic foundation and frames and then I read about someone that hates it and will only use wax this guy had all kinds of trouble not only did they not want to draw but they were building crazy comb on it , there are alot of stories on them not drawing plastic they drop wax in and bingo they draw it right out .But thats beekeeping you can find 100 guys that love it and 100 that hate it .

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Moved , wrong location

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    If anyone wants to get rid of the plastic frames (and is nearby - South WI), I'd be willing to take the plastic junk off your hands.
    Got a good use for them - I gut them and use as foundation-less.
    Bees draw natural comb just fine in the gutted plastic frames.
    Makes for nice starter strips all way around.
    Works great.
    (10 + 2) years. Dad's "smoker boy". Now I am the Dad. Classic 12 frame Dadants >> Ukranian frame horizontals.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    I'm going to stay with wood frames probably wasn't clear in my post above heard to many bad reports of them not holding up . Now if I can just take the leap to rite cell foundation !!!!! I would like to buy the 100 at the better price but don't want to be sorry i got them when they won't draw them out .

  11. #30
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    6,291

    Default

    As a many decades wax foundation user, to draw out plastic I:

    1.Paint on extra wax with a few drops of lemongrass oil.
    2. Use it for swarms or packages that have the necessity to draw it out. Feed feed feed them until drawn. Rotate frames inward as necessary.
    3. Use them as honey supers only during a strong swarm. Smear a layer of creamy granulated honey on the extra waxed foundation to draw up the bees and give them the honey they need to start drawing the comb.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lorain County, OH USA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    I always ask myself when making a decision like this: Is my decision going to be based on what's easier for me, or what is better for the bees? From this point-of-view, I find that it is often easier to make a good decision. It also usually means much more time and effort.

    My personal belief is that any advantages to using small-cell foundation, for the most part, has been debunked. If cell size is something you want to focus on (I don't), then learn how to successfully produce all-natural comb in foundationless frames (no small feat). At least it passes the "better for the bees" test - I don't think the PF-120 does.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Yeah , I'm not looking for small cell at this time at all, just trying to save some time and get away from wiring and embedding very time consuming, and its probably not better for the bee's, wax seems to be best they love it !!!

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    52,431

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    New out of the box I had no acceptance issues. Certainly less than 5.4mm plastic. Now that they've set and gotten dust on them, I am having issues. I plan to dip mine in wax this spring if I get time. Hopefully I'll have enough help to get that started. I was going to use a drum. Melt the wax in the bottom, dip, then bang against the side. Someone posted a video of that a while back and it looked like a great way to do it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    1,124

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    I don't think dipping PF-120's will be the best way to go. To apply wax to them just melt some of your own and use a 4" foam roller. I coat about 10 frames in 90 seconds not hurrying. The medium frames can be coated quickly. One pass of the roller each side. The intent is not to get a lot of wax into the cells. Dipping would be counter-productive to this and the frames will warp if the wax is too hot. Although I still have a few plastic frames in use, most have been sold with nucs for the last 4-5 years. Every time a thread like this comes up you always get numerous comments from people that don't like using them for whatever reason, but nobody comments about issues using wooden frames and ritcell etc. Personally I would never buy plastic frames again.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    This looks like a fast and easy way to add wax to plastic foundation but is he adding to much wax , if you look close he is pushing a puddle of wax ahead of the roller and most likely filling the cells with wax .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTGWKxHgIw4

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    1,124

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    Yes the video shows exactly how NOT to do it. He's using a "nap" style paint roller and its hold way too much wax. A 4" foam roller works much better. You don't have to cover every cell on the frame.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    helenwood,tn.usa
    Posts
    342

    Default Re: Mann Lake pf 120

    mann lake preassembled wood with rite cell plastic works fine for me. don't like flexible all plastic
    first colony out of a log 1983 beekeeping about 15 years. Warning i could be an idiot. I'm from South Jersey.

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