Extracting from Old Wax - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,210

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If what they buy isn't labeled for use against Varroa mites, isn't any use of OA illegal?
    Yes.


    (More exact answer: Yes, assuming the oxalic acid is not labeled as a varroa mite pesticide, it is a violation of Federal law to use it as a pesticide against varroa mites.)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Thanks
    Mark Berninghausen

  4. #43
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    Jun 2011
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    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    1,260

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Is it possible that if you violated the lable that you may have committed a victimless crime?
    No. The victim is the person who buys the food product you produced.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    2,529

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    grozzie
    No. The victim is the person who buys the food product you produced.
    If the food product is honey and per Randy Oliver hopgaurd leaves no residue in honey, just how is the person who buys the food product "honey" a victim? I am having trouble connecting the dots.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  6. #45
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    If the beekeeper didn't follow the directions, then who knows how much of that pesticide was applied (perhaps 10x the specified dose? perhaps 100x? Who knows?) The point is that the directions are what was tested and approved.

    I highly doubt that Randy Oliver said that it was impossible to abuse Hopguard and still have absolutely no effect on honey. If Randy did indeed say Hopguard has no effect on honey, almost certainly he meant "... When applied according to the directions".
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Weston, ME
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    976

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    ...
    Is it possible that if you violated the lable that you may have committed a victimless crime?
    ...
    I would suggest society as a whole is the victim. Each person makes up one unit of society (just as a bee in a colony). If a unity is willing to break the rules then society becomes the victim of the crime - i.e. as we see in the news, a slow degeneration of law. Maybe that is why we have so many laws, because we as a society resist wanting to keep the law.

    On topic:
    Where can one actually buy "legal" oa? How do we know it is legal? How do we know the supplier isn't taking the same stuff at Lowes and relabeling it?
    - - Michael Joel
    1 John 3:3-4, Matthew 5:19, Matthew 5:18, James 2:17-20, 1 John 5:2-3

  8. #47
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
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    4,749

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
    On topic:
    Where can one actually buy "legal" oa? How do we know it is legal? How do we know the supplier isn't taking the same stuff at Lowes and relabeling it?
    Brushy Mountain (at the current time) is the only supplier of the legally labeled for use in beehives OA. I know that they don't take if from Lowes and repackage it as Lowes does not sell OA!
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    A variety of bee suppliers sell "labelled and registered oxalic acid" for varroa control. Brushy Mtn, Dadant etc are some of the vendors selling registered oxalic acid. And a registered pesticide will have an EPA registration number on the label. One can trace that EPA number back upstream, if one wished to put in the effort.

    Here is a link to the Dadant product page: https://www.dadant.com/catalog/medic...ic-acid-m01758
    (If you look carefully, you will see that Brushy Mtn is the manufacturer of the Dadant oxalic acid.)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
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    4,749

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    A variety of bee suppliers sell "labelled and registered oxalic acid" for varroa control. Brushy Mtn, Dadant etc are some of the vendors selling registered oxalic acid. And a registered pesticide will have an EPA registration number on the label. One can trace that EPA number back upstream, if one wished to put in the effort.

    (If you look carefully, you will see that Brushy Mtn is the manufacturer of the Dadant oxalic acid.)
    True, but again they all buy it (the legally labeled OA) from Brushy Mtn to resell......
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    York, York County, SC
    Posts
    230

    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    That should be easily tested and confirmed. Feed in the summer a syrup solution to a colony using a internal feeder that is colored with a food grade dye like red, green or blue. The next spring check the supers as you uncap then for the presence of the color you fed.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    I have been doing a lot of searching for the toxicity of hops and can find nothing on humans but it is bad for dogs.

    I did read where a person who may eat enough honey that it was hurting them that they need to eat alot of hops cause it is supposed to help with matabolism and help with sugar and obesity. I think they said you would need to drink about 28 kegs of beer dayly to get enough to help that way though.

    I could not find the natural breakdown of when hops were folded back into the enviroment but that was also eluded to by randy.

    I do see advice from bee keepers for getting extra comb built that it is best to get it done in the brood nest and for warre keepers that do narder their hives, they will always be using brood comb to get thier honey. I have my doubts that even on the dangerous chemicals that all the frames are getting marked correctly and being kept seperate.

    I understand that adulterated honey is a bad thing and also that even if hops was a good addition and you wanted to add it, it would be like adding cinnaman to creamed honey and then it would take you out of most cottage industery laws and make it where you needed a approved food processing plant.

    I do wonder how many add cinniman and violate the law?

    I do agree that you should not sell adulterated honey.

    Randy does say in more then one artical that hopgaurd leaves no residue in honey. I have seen it in other places too. I do know they want to too wear gloves and a mask when dealing with hopgaurd. I know if you don't shake the frame and just lay the tab on bees that the ones rolled in it will die.

    I do wonder how many beekeepers are perfect of keeping all frames that were in a brood chamber out of honey supers forever. If they don't keep them out forever, what would be the time that needs to go by before they were used for honey in some way? A year, two?

    I know I switched all my supers to brood nest combs for winter and my plan is if a hive dies to use what ever comb they have as supers to try and keep swarming down. Those who have treated for mites don't do this?

    I am not really promoting anybody do anything but more just trying to figure out how I am going to handle things. As far as the law goes and violating it, Every body does violate some law and that would be no worry of mine cause even those who give thier best efforts do a little violating. I don't like to lie either but am not going to tell my wife her butt is big if she ask me point blank.

    Mike
    I know your view on toeing the line as far as the law is concerned cause you bring it up everytime a subject like this comes up just like in this thread and it always ends up being your position that common sense does not matter if it is a law and that it is bad to skirt the law. Now, don't think I think it is bad that you cautioned the poster to think about it cause I think that was a good thing. It give me a chance to think about how I feel about it. I will never agree with you that because it is a law that I can not use wood bleach rather then follow the law and buy bushy mountain stuff cause they did the work to get it approved so they can sell it. The wood bleach and the bushy mountain both do the same thing. I am proud of bushy mountain for doing it even though they do plan on getting thier money back but they didn't think of using it first and it is not thier ideal. Being legal or not does not change that it works.

    So I am fine that you brought it up but not cause of a law but more to think about the subject and what is right and wrong on it. I am no sure yet but would love to see somebody over treat and then test brood nest samples of honey.

    I am pretty sure that hops doesn't hurt you even in large treatment regimates that don't follow the lable and even if it leave pretty big residues. What I would like to know though, is does it leave residues in honey and if so for how long. Randy and a couple of others say no. They don't say it does not leave too much, they say it leave none. In context, they could have ment none was moved up to the supers. It would be nice to know.

    I have searched and if anybody finds anything, please post it.

    I would have zero issue eating the honey just due to hops not being bad for you. I would now if I gave or sold some to some one, tell them that I had treated with it and also not to feed it to thier dog but I would be interested in knowing more.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Extracting from Old Wax

    Actually the hops per the link that clyderoad posted compleetly degrades into the enviroment in four days in the dark and 36 hours in the light.

    It does not sound like long term residue in any case.
    Cheers
    gww
    Last edited by gww; 11-16-2017 at 01:32 PM.
    zone 5b

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