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OTS Method Users

8K views 36 replies 15 participants last post by  Delta Bay 
#1 ·
I've been considering switching to Mels - OTS for a couple of years now, to eventually get back to only one treatment in the Fall (if needed), or even no treatments. I think I can handle the requeening in May and July. About half my hives I would leave as production hives and the other half I'd make Nucs to overwinter.
I'd really like to hear from others who are currently using this method and get their advise. Anybody out there?
Jerry
 
#2 ·
I am also interested in the OTS method. Seems like it might be wise to establish a method for overwintering a nuc before committing a lot of resources to the idea. I've never tried overwintering a nuc before.
 
#3 ·
Jerry,

My eyes bugged while reading your post. Your approach is literally exactly the same as mine. The only difference, I began following Mel's approach a couple years ago. I fluctuate between 15 and 20 hives in two yards, half for nucs and half for honey production. Mel's system has made it so easy and cheap. ...and it's simple.

The only caution I give, for those using Mel's system as mite control, is to make sure you split after the summer solstice. Up north, splitting for mite control (after the summer solstice) and for swarm prevention (1 week before swarm season) coincide. Here in middle TN where I live, they do not. I OTS split in mid to late March and then again in Mid to late July. I break the brood cycle twice every year to control mites and control swarming. Thus, I have yet to have a swarm and have yet to have a colony collapse to mites. (Note - I do treat with essential oils)

Now, those in my bee club either laugh at me or shake their head in disbelief. Dispatching young queens so regularly borderlines on offense for some. The OTS system of colony management is completely foreign to them. People have their way of doing things and are not interested in changing. Which is fine... Be prepared for pushback.

My reasons for embracing OTS is in the pudding, you might say. At the time I split my hives this past couple weeks, I had 12 to 14 frames of brood in each hive. Honestly. My queens are young and are machines, plain and simple.

There is much more I could talk with you about. PM me if you like, perhaps we could chat on the phone. Would love to help you if I can.

JB
 
#6 ·
Anybody else out there using Mels methods?
My dad and I are first year adopters of OTS. So no long term experience with it yet. I will say I've found notching the right cells has proven tougher than expected. I think on our first attempts we were selecting larva that was too old. The latest time we were using reading glasses and a loupe and felt better about where we were notching. But we weren't sure if the target hives were queenless and it turns out they were not.
 
#7 ·
Good to hear from you. Yes I think a good pair of eyes is essential. I notched 2 hives last year and they came out good. I will say though I notched a lot more cells then I probably would of needed to. Got about 20 cells in each hive.
I'm planning on wintering the July increases 4x4x4. Wrapping 4 of the doubles all together with stryofoam-Top-Bottom- and sides. When in the year are you doing the 2nd requeening? Did you feed your Fall increases? I've got 4o Nuc boxes built. I wish the weather would cooperate.
How did your increases look this Spring?
Jerry
 
#8 ·
I've been using it for about 5 years now. There are soooo many doubters about Mel's system. I sure can't figure out why. If you follow it you can run for bees or run for honey or do a little of both. This season I might actually end up with almost too many hives......without buying any bees or queens. This year I'm modifying it just a bit from the script in the book. I'm going to split hard in May turning every one hive into at least 4. Then in July I'll dispatch my queens and just split singles into two rather than into 4. I did this last year for the first time and had a little better success overwintering hives that were slightly bigger in numbers. I over winter almost everything as a double deeps.

I pinch queens on July 1st, notch then make my splits one week later. Check for queens August 1st. I absolutely feed the fall splits and switch to fall syrup at the end of August to make sure they have enough time to dehydrate it and cap it. The July queens will continue laying eggs into October. The hives explode in the spring with the nearly unused queen. We had a warm spell in Feb and I was able to open a few hives. The queens were already laying.

I was fortunate enough to have one of Mel's mentee's as my mentor for a few years when I couldn't find a queen to save my life. I can't even begin to thank her enough for teaching me what she learned from Mel. I wouldn't have made it this far without her help and this method.
 
#9 ·
Christo- Thank-you very much for the encouragement! I'd already decided to change over to Mels system but it's great to know there's others out there already. I've got an extra box with a queen excluder nailed on to find that finicky queen if I need to use it. I'm really looking forward to getting this season started. Putting some of those July increases into singles for wintering is an interesting thought - got to feed in the Fall anyway.
Thanks again--Anything else you can think of, send it my way.
Jerry
 
#29 · (Edited)
Delta Bay,

I have that book also. He has discovered and published what Mel also discovered and published. Brood breaks control both swarming and mite build-up. Hesbach does not notch, however. He advocates for removing the a nuc (queen / brood / honey / pollen) and then "walking away" and letting the hive raise a new queen. This is called a "walk away split" by most beekeepers.

Another difference between Hesbach and Mel is the "knocking down" queen cells. Mel advocates, whether making multiple nucs from a hive or removing no brood and keeping the hive strong for honey production, to limit the number of queen cells to only 2 or 3.

(edit) The reason for the knocking down of the queen cells is to reduce "after swarms". I OTS split last week and two of my hives made 10+ cells over the ones I notched. I tore down all but 2 or 3 and placed those (on 2 frames) together. The result should be, the first queen to hatch will dispatch the other 2.

Regardless, both men have found breaking the brood cycle in a hive helps control swarming and mite build-up.

jb
 
#13 ·
I'm following his method this year.
I already have allot of splits going now, starts early here in the PNW, just went in last night, killed qc's and made more splits.
I'm ready have over 700 drawn combs enough wooden ware for 200+ hives made after this winter
 
#14 ·
I always find it interesting when people avoid buying Mel's book based on price. If follow the management system outlined in the book you can literally turn one hive into 16 in one season. It isn't BS. I 've done it. With nuc prices at around $160 each, that translates into about $2500 in bees that you only spent $85 to learn how to make. Might be the best deal in beekeeping these days!!
 
#15 ·
I always find it interesting when people avoid buying Mel's book based on price.
Agree with you! If people are truly interested in this they should get the book.
Mel's business is for selling nucs. That's what he likes to do but the system can easily be adapted for honey, nuc and queen production. As well there are other management variations that he doesn't have in his book that work equally as well. Once you understand why and how it's working, the system has numerous management options. Then you can adapt it to what you want from your bees.
 
#17 ·
Mel's data is def worth the investment.plus it's so simple.
the switch for me, it was failure of production and slow timing in the methods of demarre, walk away's and snelgroove, all worthless imo

using mel's data works, I used it last summer, and it rocks.
This season, I blew it on the first break with one hive I have, I could have made 5 nuc splits last week and forgot to notch
all the extra frames of these Oliver Italians from Cali. ****.
no worries I still have lots of time to increase this year.


one note for those thinking about using this method...go to youtube and search Mel Disselkoan, there are 2 lectures he gives, and they are about his NEW method the OTS, not his old tek with flour and bullets.
watch the vids for a great intro to his thinking


everyone wants free bees? Right?
 
#20 ·
OTS gives you some control over where the bees make emergency cells and with that flexibility its much easier to make the splits each with a frame with several queen cells. Note as was said above he looks for numbers for nucs sales. If you also listen closely to his you tube with the NC beekeepers club (hendersonville) he says that he expects up to 75% losses at times. Also remember that all beekeeping is local, in a northern area with a continuous flow and no small hive beetle it will be more sucessfully than a mid Atlantic area with a dearth in July and August and a fall flow sometimes one year out of 4. It is a great way for beeks to make queens without grafting. Adapt the principles to your situation.
 
#21 ·
the genius of ots in my opinion is the enabling of any beekeeper to grow selected larvae into harvestable queen cells at the pull of a frame and the swipe of the hive tool, eliminating virtually all of the cumbersome tasks involved in queen rearing.

starting queen cells and making splits via what ever method is what a lot more beekeepers should consider doing themselves. making one's own increase and becoming self sustaining saves a lot of money for starters but also, and this is the real beauty,

it gets many more folks involved in queen selection for desirable traits. (read here bees that exhibit natural resistance to diseases and pests). i would encourage folks who propagate new colonies to give a little attention to what queens and drones eventually get the job done.
 
#22 ·
Completely agree about the sustainability. I suffered devastating winter losses two winters in a row. If not for OTS I would have been knocked out of beekeeping. I had already invested more money than I should have into a time sucking hobby with no rewards at that point. I was able to bounce back with no further cash outlay.

I really think it's great for newer beekeepers to learn. You're going to make stupid mistakes that cause you to lose the occasional hive. Beekeeping has a darn steep learning curve. When you know OTS it's not such a big deal when you lose a hive or two.....just turn the ones you didn't goof up and kill into more.
 
#23 ·
sure. and like most things beekeeping everyone comes up with their own variation on the theme that suits their operation best.

here's what i would consider doing:

1. wait until mating season is in full swing and new wax making has begun.
2. identify the queen i am most interested in propagating.
3. place a foundationless frame in the very middle of her broodnest.
4. go back 5 days later and make sure their are lots of eggs and just hatched larvae on the newly drawn brood comb, (which is soft and does not require notching), and look to see if there are potential queens there, and if so
5. go ahead and artificially swarm the queen mother to a new hive, be very nice to her, and let her parent hive grow the cells.
6. go back in 5 days and see how many (if any) queen cells you have on the new foundationless frame.
7. harvest when ripe, which is made easier with the virgin comb.
 
#27 ·
I am no long time beek, however, this method is awesome for making bees! I attended one of Mels classes and bought the book. Out of 8 attempted splits 7 made and mated quality queens. It is a mental block I believe for beeks that are set in their ways, but I was open for anything since I didn't know much to start!! If you follow the book and timelines its like connecting the dots and very rewarding to not have to purchase bees every year because you can make your own from your best stock.
 
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