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Basswood/Linden

5K views 23 replies 12 participants last post by  TWall 
#1 ·
Does anyone know at what age Basswood/Linden trees start flowering? I am looking at more long term nectar sources for bees to plant. We've got some acreage and I don't plan to completely cover it with trees but If I plant some Basswood trees then they will spread on their own over time. We do not currently have any at all in my area.
 
#5 ·
Three years from seed? That's not my experience, alas! I have ten year old seedlings of American basswood (Tilia americana) that are nowhere near blooming. I would say it will take at least 15-20 years, and even then they are still a very modest sized tree -nothing compared to what they will be.

They will become huge if they are in a place they like. I have one in my dooryard that's as tall as the roof in my two-story barns, yet it is a baby compared to the ones in my bottom lands. It has grown about 12 feet in the 30 years I have been here.

I put deer fences around every basswood seedling I find on my farm. Their growth rate is only about 3 to 8 inches per year.

The other drawback is that they are not reliable annual major nectar-flow producers. Though they produce at least some flowers annually, I'd say the bonanza years come only about every three to five years. This is not because of winter damage, it's just their pattern. But I still favor them since when they're hot, they're HOT! Fortunately individual trees seem to cycle through the pattern on slightly different timetables, so there's usually at least one old tree at its peak nectar production each June. The best basswood years are when several peak in the same year. When the one in my dooryard is at peak, you can hear my bees and other pollinators working it from 50 feet away. The last peak for it was 2015, so I'm not due for another big flow for another couple of years.

I have less experience with the smaller-leaved, lollipop-shaped street trees, the European linden. They often are planted in road medians here in NY and they seem to produce visible flowers annually. I have a couple of small ones of those planted, too, but they have not started blooming yet - they're only about four or five feet high. I am generally too cheap to buy ball and burlap trees - I buy bare-root whips (and seedlings if I can't get my own seedlings going.) I am a horticulturist by trade, so starting trees is easy for me.

I am in my late 60s and I still plant dozens of trees every year, though I doubt I will be around to see them at full maturity. But the trees I planted 30 years ago are very satisfying since they are now large and mature and every spring I get a lot of pleasure checking on them and seeing how they are coming on.

Enj.
 
#6 ·
I am generally too cheap to buy ball and burlap trees - I buy bare-root whips (and seedlings if I can't get my own seedlings going.)

Enj.
Now you're speaking my language! :) I'm going to order some small trees. They're relatively cheap from the National Arbor Day foundation, plus if I join I get 10 free trees and they offer a flowering package. I'm 45 so I'd hope to see blooms from them, but even if I don't, somebody will.

The trees are described as fast growing online, so I was expecting both species, the Amercian or the Little Leaf, to grow a couple feet a year, but they way you're talking that's not correct. I envisioned them to have a growth speed similar to Poplar.
 
#7 ·
I'm afraid you will be disappointed if you're expecting poplar-rate growth.

While I applaud the National Arbor Day Foundation, I wouldn't buy their trees (and decline the free ones). Seed source is critically important to success in my experience (perhaps less so for you down south, but still a factor I think). Trees take so long to grow that I see no point wasting time on less-than-optimal stock.

You need to find nurseries in, or close to, your own growing area and ask specifically about their seed or clonal sources. You're in luck though, because you are closer to TN, where there is a huge industry in growing nursery stock. I have had mixed luck with TN-originated stuff, but sometimes they are the only source for a specific species I want.

I am in northern NY and I have had good luck with Oikos, Cold Stream Farm, and St. Lawrence nurseries. And of course, I am lucky in that NYS operates a nursery too, but only for NY buyers. If anyone has other northern sources to recommend I would appreciate hearing about them. Next to books (and bee stuff) trees are my biggest splurge.

Speaking of books, I highly recommend Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Ornamentals. A huge compendium of everything you want to know about growing trees (and shrubs). No pretty pictures (though he has other books with those). Despite being very useful for amateur tree-growers, it's the straight skinny intended for trade professionals. It's very pricey, so go to your library and ask for it. It's readily available by inter-library loan if they don't have it. There are multiple editions, but even a slightly older one will be very useful.

Enj.
 
#8 ·
Also a tree guy, in my experience Linden whether American or Littleaf should grow much faster than 8" per year when they are immature, probably 2-3' would be average in North Dakota. However if they have to compete with tough location or poor planting they will not get even close to that. I can show you many that are under irrigation in a yard setting that struggle to stay alive and equally as many that are left alone that have great growth from year to year. They will not tolerate being planted too deep but if planted with first root at ground level they usually take right off. As with all trees however seed source and planting location are critical.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the replies. I have yet to see any offered at any online, southern nursery. I've also never seen one at any local nursery that I've been to. We aren't in the native growing range. We're south of where they stop, but are in correct zone according to websites I've seen. I have about any type location at my disposal to plant them in. We don't have deep soil though, so how well do you both think they'll do? We have a few inches of top soil, at best, then clay, then bedrock. I can plant them on hillsides, bottom land, hill tops. Full sun, partial sun, under mature canopies of hardwoods. I have a great mix of terrain available.
 
#11 ·
Given the parameters of you location and knowing where they are native here I woul try bottomlands and just up the hillside, they will take some moisture but want to dry out also. Around here they generally grow in the floodplain usually near the water and typically under canopy from other trees or on the edge of said canopy. Hope this helps.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the advice Rebachin. Clyde there may be better options, but I haven't found it yet. I would plant Sourwood but from what I've read I'm not at the right elevation to get nectar. I don't know what elevation has to do with nectar either, unless it's a temperature thing. I know I've seen a few Little Leaf's around here, I just can't remember where, yet. It will come to me about 2:00 am and awaken me from a deep sleep when it does finally pop into my mind. :)

I'm looking for trees to plant that bloom later in the spring. The perfect selfish choice for late spring season nectar would be Chinese tallow, but I don't want to be the one responsible for doing that to our local ecology, since they are considered to be so invasive.
 
#16 ·
I can support the opinion that Basswoods produce well about every 3-5 years. We see the whole woods acting in unison. Typically hot and dry is bad. Rain is not as bad as most other sources because the flowers point down and do not wash out. We have seen a good flow on misty days, as long as the bees can fly.

The Little leaf seem to proceed the Big leaf by about the length of the Little leaf flow. Now if Black Locust grows in your area, it proceeds the Little leaf.

The problem for us is that you have to get your hives reved up real early to take advantage of any flow before the Big leafs.

Roland Diehnelt
Linden Apiary, est. 1852
 
#20 ·
I am cheap and planted some black locusts last year. I got 10 plants from Raintree Nursery (raintreenursery.com) in Morton WA for $25.00 plus shipping. They were each 3 -4 feet tall when they came and by the end of the summer some were over 10 feet and the smallest was over 8 feet. Be warned however, they are considered an invasive species in some states. My lindens that have been in for several years are barely growing in comparison.
 
#24 ·
The town I live in planted a number, 50-60, of the Silver leaf Linden on a street not too far from some of my hives. The trees were planted 15+ years ago. They were 2" dbh at planting. I don't know when they began to flower. But, they are fairly reliable nectar source most years. They flower with sweet clover here. I had one planted in my daughters yard a couple of years ago. It hasn't flowered yet.

The American basswood may be more irregular nectar producer. But, it is a good producer when it does have a nectar flow. Plant some sweet clover with them and you will have your bases covered.

Tom
 
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