Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 50
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    3,611

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Ian, could you you include the power of magnification used for your photomicrographs? Or, do you have a calibrated grid you can superimpose? It might help in identification.

    Crazy Roland

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Roland it's 400x, contents of my bees intestinal tract.
    Some bees are littered with these objects , others nothing. Randy mentions an egg yoke looking object to be rust yeast. Does this match rust yeast or as Michael suggested, simply pollen?
    This is my first time using a microscope since grade 11 Bio class... lol
    A Facebook friend suggested using a drop of iodine and a thinner sample to help define the slide sample.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling


    One bee Chalk full,

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    3,611

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Ian, streaking was in style last time I looked thru a microscope. I can dig out my microbiology book tomorrow and try to jog some brain cells. Of the top of my head, various stains where use, such as Gram's and Picric acid. It helped determine what the blob might be.

    Do you see any surface irregularities? They looked smoth to me.

    Crazy Roland

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    I have a slide for you Roland , just give me a moment to load it.
    I've picked up a bunch of stuff chatting with guys about micro organisms.
    The pic earlier is half digested pollen, as Michael Palmer suggested. The pic I posted up top is one absolutely full of nosema spores. Typically don't see them that full, took a pic as my trophy lol

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling



    The yellow yoke looking objects... I've gotten a few diagnosis ( hard diagnosing with unfocused pics on the Internet)
    Either rust yeast, Nigel rein whatever that means or crithidia
    All not good, but what can you do... looks cool
    I just see these guys occasionally

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,965

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Crithidia are protozoans. They can be a problem in the wet areas like on the West Coast especially in the winter. They prevent bees from fully digesting the pollen they consume. This in turn does not allow bees to make good jelly for feeding larvae. Apparently the acidic content of honey prevents crithidia and other protozoans from reproducing and thriving. That is why in our case bees that goto Allberta for a honey flow do just fine in the winter. The ones that stay here don't always do great. They survive ok, but are not boiling at the seams like some of the Alberta bees do. All this informtion is verbatim from Caspian Apiaries.

    Still waiting for signs of warmth and a descent pollen flow.

    Jean-Marc

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    3,611

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Ian - how difficult would it be for you to obtain a small quantity if Gram's stain?

    Crazy Roland

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Tofield, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post


    The background level of nosema in my hives is tremendous yet the visual symptoms of the infection has basically disappeared. Lab testing proves that almost the entire nosema infection is Ceranae.
    Existing Sampling and spore counting of various test groups shows such inconsistent results that I can't make sense of anything. So I'm officially scrapping composite Sampling and spore counts.
    I've been reading Randy Oliver's work on Sequential Sampling for some time now but I have not adopted his method due to time and equipment needed...until now. Hello compound microscope, hello new options.

    Sequential Sampling ;
    0 positive bees out of 5, or no more than 1 positive out of 10 indicates < 10% infection

    3 positive bees out of 5, or at least 4 positives out of 10 indicates > 30% infection

    need to know is one of two things—are your bees in the “safe” zone (under 20% infected) or in the danger zone (over 40% infected).

    I may not be seeing any of the old visual symptoms, except the count of empty boxes. 10% loss assessment (estimated) in the shed right now. Now to figure if the smaller hives are dwindling due to hives falling into the danger zone and if those big clusters actually hold infection or not.


    Omano OM136C 40X-400X Compound Microscope with 1.3MP Digital Camera Package
    Pretty sweet listed on sale at $238
    Hey Ian, where did you pickup this microscope? I looked on Amazon canada, but couldn't find any. Microscope.com has decent deals, but shipping from the states is $100+.
    Thanks in advance.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Ian - how difficult would it be for you to obtain a small quantity if Gram's stain?

    Crazy Roland
    My cousin is a vet so I'm sure he has stains or dyes on hand. I'll track some down. Do you have experience with staining samples? Because I don't have any.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybee Apiaries View Post
    Hey Ian, where did you pickup this microscope? I looked on Amazon canada, but couldn't find any. Microscope.com has decent deals, but shipping from the states is $100+.
    Thanks in advance.
    MB, it cost me $90 shipping after exchange.
    The microscope I bought here is excellent, the digital is useful for a guy like me who likes to take pics and show anyone who listens,...lol
    I think the binocular would be nice, but whatever, I don't plan on spending my life behind one.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    3,611

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Ian asked"

    Do you have experience with staining samples? Because I don't have any.


    Oh sure, but that was back when Pintos, Vegas, and Beetles ruled the roads, and gas was expensive at 85 cents a gallon. I found my Microbiology book and realized I had forgotten more than I currently know.

    I will read more tomorrow and report back with suggestions. It was not hard, if you have all of the ingredients.

    What illumination does you microscope come with? Any polarizing filters or other gadgets? It may determine what route is best.

    Crazy Roland

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Lol, ... I am good at picking out nosema spores...
    I wasn't sure what those polarizing filters did,

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    I've been told that those yellow egg looking yoke objects look like oil or fat.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    salisbury, wiltshire, united kingdom
    Posts
    86

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Interesting thread this Ian, it confirms my suspicions that Beekeepers the world over do not do much microscope work and as you rightly say assume/blame outside influence on colony state of health, I thought it was just the UK that has this attitude

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    3,611

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    There should be a selective stain for lipid(oils). I will look in my textbook tomorrow.

    Crazy Roland

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    >>>For what it’s worth; <<<

    After running my nosema samples through Sequential Sampling to determine my apiarie’s 10% infection rate (safe zone), I gathered the remaining bees from each sample into a composite sample and sent them away for couunts at the NBDC. My counts have returned.
    Of the 10% infected bees, my non treatment infected bees held a lower count (2m counts) as compared to my fumagillin treated infected bees (10m spore counts). Also my Thymol control group infected bees counted 7m spores. So to summarize from this, my apiary holds a low nosema infection rate (6-10% across the ALL test groups), but of those infected bees the non treatment group held lower actual counts than the treated groups. The low infection rate but higher counts per infected bee is why my samples come back so high yet my apiary seems to perform well. I need to watch my Infection rate, if it starts to climb up past 30% my apiary performance may suffer. But I don’t know what I would do about it. If my fumagillin trial tells me anything, treatment only makes Infection worst…

    http://stepplerfarms.com/Honeyblog/?p=7826

  18. #38
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Meriden, CT
    Posts
    202

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Why bother? >>To know<<

    Here are my too common conversations with beekeepers of all stripes;

    "... my hives crashed because of farmers..."
    "...what's your disease levels and conditions?"
    "...I don't know but that farmer sprays around here..."

    We need to put more effort into knowing our hives conditions to be able to properly diagnose their troubles. EVERY other industry does it...beekeepers assume too much
    Ian thanks for your response and I agree on the being informed. Are you treating for Nosema? Certain threshold? Treatment of choice?

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,050

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    All questions with no answers
    And IMO a huge issue which few take seriously

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    870

    Default Re: Nosema Sequential Sampling

    seems to be a case of , damned if you do and damned if you don't

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •