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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I'm pretty sure that I read that the difference was actually quite large.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...-1-of-2-parts/

    'Ellis and Aliano found that OA is about 70 times as toxic to mites as it is to adult bees'
    My comment paraphrased Randy's comment. Perhaps he was referring to getting the proper dose? A little too much in the hive and there are negative effects on the bees. This seems easy to do and has been reported for all of the delivery methods I have read about.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    Ian, I am not sure what opinion you are referring to.
    Your implied opinion that using OAV or OA through this method is shortsighted.
    What about other treatment methods such as MAQS or Thymol ? Is using those treatments shortsighted also ?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    My comment paraphrased Randy's comment. Perhaps he was referring to getting the proper dose? A little too much in the hive and there are negative effects on the bees. This seems easy to do and has been reported for all of the delivery methods I have read about.
    I read the article the other way. The bees tended to thrive in the slightly more acidic hive. I have not read any neg effects from OA dosage
    Unless using dribble which it burns the bees stomachs

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    It is an interesting application and appears to pose less of a heath risk to the applicator.
    not sure that is true given the constrated nature, but people smarter then me can work it out
    after a quick look on goggle, I would approach this with caution as it is absorbed threw the skin, Its one thing to be handling OA mixed 1g/28.6ml with syrup, it is quite another to handle it mixed 1g/1ml
    It is worth noting that your moving from a lethal human dose being about 3 hives worth ( EPA oad/oav dose) to were a single hive dose is almost 5X the human lethal dose, this is an industrial strength pesticide, treat it as such

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    not sure that is true given the constrated nature, but people smarter then me can work it out
    after a quick look on goggle, I would approach this with caution as it is absorbed threw the skin, Its one thing to be handling OA mixed 1g/28.6ml with syrup, it is quite another to handle it mixed 1g/1ml
    It is worth noting that your moving from a lethal human dose being about 3 hives worth ( EPA oad/oav dose) to were a single hive dose is almost 5X the human lethal dose, this is an industrial strength pesticide, treat it as such
    Should have been more clear... I was thinking along the lines of vaporizing.

    I would agree with your statement as I had to reread the formulation. It seemed like a typo at first compared to OA in syrup.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    I think my stated opinion was that time=money=shortsighted.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I read the article the other way. The bees tended to thrive in the slightly more acidic hive. I have not read any neg effects from OA dosage
    Unless using dribble which it burns the bees stomachs
    Oxalic can be toxic to bees if the dose it high enough. I think this is true regardless of the delivery method.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Thanks for the helpful answers guys
    "Thinking Inside The Box"

  9. #29
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    Jul 2013
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    oroville california usa
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Has anyone tried this treatment method in colder weather? Randy said something about possible wing damage in cooler temps

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    Oxalic can be toxic to bees if the dose it high enough. I think this is true regardless of the delivery method.
    And that harmful dose would be...? Nowhere close to the vaporizer or towel delivery method dosages

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    I think my stated opinion was that time=money=shortsighted.
    Come run my business, time = $$$ is not shortsighted around here

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    I treated with oa/gly with cardboard strips July and Aug. We saw an increase in brood on those hives. Queen must prefer acidic environment.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by RAK View Post
    I treated with oa/gly with cardboard strips July and Aug. We saw an increase in brood on those hives. Queen must prefer acidic environment.
    Did you notice any initial brood damage? With some doses of formic and even thymol, they seem to do a little initial damaging, almost setting up a cleansing effect before the colony bounces back with that beautiful brood.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Come run my business, time = $$$ is not shortsighted around here
    I would probably get fired before my first cup of coffee.

    I understand the concept, but I think in this context the cheapest and easiest way may not be ideal long term. It seems as though we are running out of viable options, the types of cheap easy treatments we have grown accustomed to. For the long term good of the industry, maybe we should look a little farther out.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    And that harmful dose would be...? Nowhere close to the vaporizer or towel delivery method dosages
    I don't know the direct answer to that Ian as it appears to be variable. There is some work that has determined the LD50 dose of OA for honey bees, but with the different treatment methods it seems to vary. You mentioned stomach issues as described for the drench method and primarily in clustered bees. The glycerin application mentions wing damage, again in somewhat confined settings. To me, this suggests, treatments are walking the fine line when it comes to "killing a bug on a bug". I am not saying this is good or bad, just the game we play.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I read the article the other way. The bees tended to thrive in the slightly more acidic hive. I have not read any neg effects from OA dosage
    Unless using dribble which it burns the bees stomachs
    Funny how people can read the same thing and walk away with a different view... I interpreted it to mean the oxalic provided some sort of stress which resulted in a sort of purging and then rebuilding. I think this has been described for formic too. Sometimes when organisms are stressed or challenged, they step up their game.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    I would probably get fired before my first cup of coffee.
    .
    Ha ha , na, I'd get my money's worth out of you for sure.


    Cheap , easy on bees, effective, quick

    It will be interesting to see how it pans out

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    Sometimes when organisms are stressed or challenged, they step up their game.
    Assuming it causes stress at these dosages. Perhaps the bees are simply thriving.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Also, stupid question maybe but in NZ we do not have shop towels, maybe they go under a different name, what is a shop towel a piece of cloth?
    Do a google search OT. Blue shop towels. It probably isn't necessary for them to be blue. They are used for cleaning up spills and such in auto repair shops. Paper...disposable. Heavier than kitchen paper towels.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Oxalic, Glycerin, Shop Towels - a promising stopgap flyswatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Cheap , easy on bees, effective, quick

    It will be interesting to see how it pans out
    Your description reminds me of a thought I had sitting in a meeting listening to a researcher from Bayer. He was describing all of the steps and costs to develop a new compound and ended by saying it was really difficult to compete with a treatment that beekeepers could make for pennies. Are we our own worst enemy due the ingenuity and thriftiness of beekeepers? As soon as we catch wind of a new compound or application we are off to the shop.
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