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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Kinston, NC, USA
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: #6 hardware cloth or mesh source

    Quote Originally Posted by sr4440 View Post
    two typo's, the price at the site is 30% higher @ $8.95
    Actually, the price has gone up as of today. China has passed a law banning galvanization factories. There is a shortage of galvanized cloth everywhere right now and it is difficult to find and expensive. We pay $1.80 per square foot for it and we buy it in bulk 4 foot x 100 foot rolls, so get it about as cheap as you can. Our most recent order of it which we ordered yesterday cost us $568 for the roll plus $140 in shipping. So our prices are going up on the hardware cloth as well. This particular cloth is a very heavy cloth, as in you can bend it, but its not easy. It weighs around a half a pound per square foot.

    So we still carry it, as we have several rolls in stock, but the price is reflective of the current market value of galvanized steel and the difficulty in getting it. We are currently looking at suppliers in other countries such as india since China has outlawed the production of galvanized steel.

    you can find it here: https://www.funnybugbees.com/the-bee...plies/hardware
    Last edited by FunnyBugBees; 05-18-2017 at 02:55 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    York County, VA, USA
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: #6 hardware cloth or mesh source

    Now, realize that I'm a kludge artist from 'way back. But none of you seem to be considering that as-purchased hardware cloth is made and sold with square(ish) mesh. And that that mesh does not _have_ to stay square. Anyone familiar with "expanded metal"? Just diagonalize that material starting with #4, and you'll have something that bees can't get through and beetles can. Re-form it and it will stay that shape. Then cut it to fit your application. Get clever enough and you can cut to (some appropriate size) and then stretch it to "correct fit."

    Or so it seems to me. Of course, others may have a different definition of artist. Technique has an interesting etymology. Look it up sometime.
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Kinston, NC, USA
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: #6 hardware cloth or mesh source

    Quote Originally Posted by DerTiefster View Post
    Now, realize that I'm a kludge artist from 'way back. But none of you seem to be considering that as-purchased hardware cloth is made and sold with square(ish) mesh. And that that mesh does not _have_ to stay square. Anyone familiar with "expanded metal"? Just diagonalize that material starting with #4, and you'll have something that bees can't get through and beetles can. Re-form it and it will stay that shape. Then cut it to fit your application. Get clever enough and you can cut to (some appropriate size) and then stretch it to "correct fit."

    Or so it seems to me. Of course, others may have a different definition of artist. Technique has an interesting etymology. Look it up sometime.
    Some good points, ill try to address them.

    For your first point:

    If you use #4 not only will beetles get through but every bee, grasshopper, wasp, or other small insect and small lizards. #4 mesh comes in three industry standard sizes, they are:

    aperture in inch/mm wire diam. in inch/mm %Open Area
    0.215 5.460 4 0.0350/0.890 74.0%
    0.203 5.160 4 0.04701/.190 65.9%
    0.187 4.749 4 0.0630/1.600 56.0%

    So as you can see the average smallest aperture #4 cloth has is 4.79mm which is WAY larger than a hive beetle and WAY larger than bees.

    For your second point:

    There are woven wire mesh cloths and there are welded wire mesh cloths. Welded cloths do not lose square as they are welded at the wire joints. Woven wire cloths also do not lose square if they are galvanized as this basically "welds" the joints together. Since galvanized steel is the material of choice for beekeepers due to price point, you do not have to worry about it losing square. There is also the point that woven cloths with a wire diameter of or above about 0.30 in size are under so much tension that it is highly improbable that they will lose square either under normal use.

    For your third point:

    #6-041 woven cloth is 3.2004mm average aperture. Based on highschool math this gives a diagonal corner to corner measurement of about 4.3mm. Which you are correct is big enough for a bee....IF....and this is a huge if...the bee can manage to flatten itself into a 2 dimensional object so that it is able to pass through the plane created by the transection of one corner of a square to the diagonally opposite corner......which is not possible..Therefore bees cannot get through #6-041 cloth..

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    York County, VA, USA
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: #6 hardware cloth or mesh source

    I call B.S. on that DerTiefster guy. He's me, so I can do that. I'd actually been planning on doing what I described, but when I tried it, IT DOESN"T WORK. As the esteemed and correct FunnyBugBees contends, hardware cloth is engineered to STAY SQUARE. News to me, having only dealt with things more like chicken wire and woven screening in times past. THANK YOU for educating me.



    Actually, most of those comparisons are not from me. #4 cloth will allow bees through, and is commonly available. I bought a 100 ft roll for ~$220 lately. My [attempt at] contribution to the discussion is that you _can_ take #4 cloth and pull on its diagonals and bend the wire. [Doesn't work, though.] You won't change the angles at the weldment points. But I never claimed that, and everything [no; nothing] else changes [either]. ....

    I contended: "One can take cheap #4 cloth and distort it by pulling along its diagonal to keep bees from passing through but still allow hive beetles to fall through." But I was wrong.

    I also said, "Sometimes it gets hard to think after 9 pm. Maybe it happened to me." Well, it did. I thought several months ago that I'd like to have a material that I couldn't readily get. I thought that #4 would be malleable enough to form to shape. Nope. Too stiff. I'm still learning, and I apologize for opening my trap before I actually did the experiment.
    Last edited by DerTiefster; 05-19-2017 at 05:57 PM. Reason: I thought I made a mistake, but it turned out I was simply wrong.
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    York County, VA, USA
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: #6 hardware cloth or mesh source

    I was wrong about the malleability of #4 hardware cloth. FunnyBugBees was correct that it is simply too stiff to shear in the way that chicken wire and woven screening can be diagonalized.

    It's a good day when I learn something. Today's a good day.
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

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