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How many beekeepers test their hives for diseases at least once per season?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 64.6%
  • No

    Votes: 17 35.4%

Bees, lies and evidence-based policy

69K views 416 replies 29 participants last post by  BernhardHeuvel 
#1 ·
#181 ·
I am surprised by the number of beeks that have advice for farmers when they have no farming experience. They wouldn't know a cutworm if it were served to them on a platter. They also haven't even taken a minute out of their day to study the importance of the chemicals farmers use today. Bottom line they are lacking in knowledge. Otherwise known as ignorant.
 
#182 ·
I have spoken to three land owners this year on this topic, two of the three had the same tone as Haraga, the other just asking my opinion. You all know my opinion and I told them.

Beekeepers be advised; have a nice nutral opinion figured out this fall on your honey deliveries. Otherwise you might get yourself into a discussion you might rather leave to beesource...
 
#184 ·
I'm pretty sure the seeding densities for corn work out to close to be a bag per bag. But soybeans would be more
I wonder if the exposure is even greater with canola than corn or soybeans. Measuring neonic levels in pollen and nectar would be the most valuable information. Plant biomass will impact the concentration, assuming it is uniform across tissues.

There is always the unanswered question of the impact of sub-lethal exposure of honeybees. And then the added impact of mites, diseases, nutrition, etc.

Tom
 
#188 ·
Health Canada has determined that neonics have cause bee mortality.

For more info check this page out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...minating-prairie-wetlands-scientist-1.2482082
"No neonic ban in Canada

Unlike Europe, which has moved to ban neonics, the Canadian government said in an email to CBC "we do not feel a suspension is warranted at this time."

However, Health Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Authority has publicly raised concerns about the pesticide, and its possible effect on bees in the corn-growing regions of Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba.

In the statement, Health Canada said its research shows "the use of neonicotinoid treated corn and soybean seed are affecting the environment due to their impact on bees and other pollinators."

It found that about 70 per cent of dead bee samples tested positive for neonic residue, whereas the chemical was detected in one sample of unaffected bees.

"We concluded that the majority of pollinator mortalities were a result of exposure to neonicotinoid insecticides" the report said.

And so Ottawa is now publicly consulting on new proposed standards for safer planting practices and enhanced warning labels on soybean and corn seed treated with the pesticide. It is also conducting a detailed scientific re-evaluation of the effects of neonics on bees, which will be released this year.

While not commenting directly on Morrissey's research, Health Canada does say that "the overall potential effects of neonicotinoid insecticides to Canada's ecosystem are one of the topics that will be examined as part of the broader re-evaluation, which is currently underway."
 
#194 ·
I believe it was the planter dust issue.
Thanks dgl1948

So, why is the planter dust numbers being used when talking about generalized acute poisoning of the bees? The issue was addressed. Our farm used a different lubricant which apparently helped the dusting off issue, though, we had been using that product for 15 plus years without issue...

http://www.eco.on.ca/blog/2014/10/14/look-science-neonicotinoids/

"In recent years, substantial declines in honey bee populations have been observed, notably in North America and Europe. This decline includes colony losses in Ontario: over the last eight years, the average overwintering loss of bee colonies in Ontario has been approximately 34 per cent – more than double the 15 per cent winter loss rate that is considered to be acceptable by apiculturists. In fact, last winter, Ontario lost 58 per cent of its honey bee colonies. In addition to these overwintering losses, a number of other large-scale bee deaths have been reported in Canada. In the spring and summer of 2012 and 2013, the PMRA received numerous reports of honey bee mortalities (.pdf) from beekeepers in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba. The resulting Health Canada report concluded that the planting of corn seeds treated with neonicotinoids contributed to the majority of the bee mortalities that occurred in the corn growing regions of Ontario and Quebec. - See more at: http://www.eco.on.ca/blog/2014/10/14/look-science-neonicotinoids/#sthash.qCrM4ot1.dpuf"


Is this paragraph not associating the losses experienced by beekeepers over the last 8 years, and the high wintering loss in Ontario last winter to the seed dusting issue?

Adam, is it the dusting that is the issue, or is it the systemic acute poisoning that is the issue. Is it accidental they present the issue in a way where it looks like they have Health Canada confirming beehive mortality due to neonic exposure (dust exposure, not systemic exposure) , associating it to years of loss data?

and............ where was there any mention of diseases and weather related issues...........
 
#196 ·
" Christy Morrissey says that over the past few years neonicotinoids have been used increasingly on crops in Western Canada and the chemical is making its way into wetlands, potentially having a devastating "domino effect" on insects and the birds that rely on them"

This biologist is a year and a half into a 4 year study. I assume the wetlands she is referring to are sloughs in our field. If these neonics are building up with time and not breaking down in our wetland and soil we could see systemic poisoning in the future. Plants could be taking these chemicals up at levels that could be a problem. It is something that needs studying. We do not want to jump to conclusion but we do not want another 2-4-D issue as well.
 
#198 ·
If these neonics are building up with time and not breaking down in our wetland and soil we could see systemic poisoning in the future.
Absolutely, we need to study this, and as you say, she is in the first year and a half of a four year study. She has come out with findings so trace that her testing equipment is not capable of accurately measuring. Is this not something we need scrutinized before we can draw conclusions from it?
 
#197 ·
The isolated neonic dusting kills is understood and accepted by everyone. The chronic effects from ppb and ppt background levels is highly speculative. The chronic effects from systemic plant exposure is also highly speculative. You can't draw conclusions from one event to prove the other. Exposing the bees to toxic levels which kill them does not mean trace amounts will kill them also.

If these trace levels are being ingested by the hives, like other ingested insecticides exposed to the bees, they may be contributing to the honey bee health problem facing our industry. But by no means is it causing the issue. All issues have to be considered; disease, nutrition, weather, pesticides. One issue can not be singled out as the root cause.

What were the other underlying health issues during these heavy loss events?
 
#199 ·
#200 ·
Does this statement not jump out at anyone else??? Perhaps contributing to this neonic issue as every other pesticide the bees are exposed to???
Definitely - I found the article in last months ABJ very interesting. I am glad I don't use it and agree with Randy opinion that if you are having what you think neonic related issues and you are using Amitraz and you should be thinking hard about discontinuing its use.

I think in the end you will regret using anything that builds up in comb
 
#202 ·
zhiv9;1176570colony numbers across Canada have stayed constant or gone up since 2006 said:
http://www.producer.com/2014/08/colony-numbers-up-honey-production-falling/[/url]
Hey Adam, your drawing conclusions again. Say I have not collected buckwheat honey since 2006 as well... must be the neonic back ground levels in the area...

Got your disease samples away?
 
#203 ·
It's not hard to see why you want to take a wait and see approach - you aren't taking any losses that you are aware of due to neonics and you have a vested interest in their continued use. You might be more conflicted if you were facing the same conditions as some beekeepers in Ontario. In the current scenario you have nothing to lose. If anything you gain with high honey prices.

As I said before - you can pick apart each season individually and find other explanations for losses and lack of production, but results over time negate those. Look at the dust issue, at first they said it was due to unusual weather but as it happened during more seasons, it became clear that unusual weather wasn't the factor.

I contacted the lab, but the haven't got back to. I'll try them again, but we don't have many foraging days left here.
 
#206 ·
Have you done any testing Adam?
This is my point, quite the bother to see what the bees hold for disease levels. Grab a sample jar, collect a couple hundred in a wash.

With all this talk about neonic losses you would think making sure disease issues in the apiary would be top of mind. Ever think about nutrition ?
 
#207 ·
I think a lot about nutrition and disease levels. How long has this lab testing been available to us at a reasonable price? What are you doing with the test information? You can treat for nosema, but its not even clear if that is helpful anymore and could actually make it worse. I am monitoring varroa and reacting when needed which is the best method of dealing with the vectored viruses. I locate my yards in areas that should yield a variety of pollen and supplement when I feel there is a deficiency.
I would like to have the testing done out of curiousity but the information alone isn't useful if there is really nothing that can be done as a result of having it.

How many times have you had your bees test for disease? How long has the program been available.

What does this have to do with neonic losses? If you think disease levels are much higher in Ontario since 2006 and that its the issue and not neonics show me the data to support it? Why would disease levels be much higher here than anywhere else in the country or continent.
 
#208 ·
I have tested my apiary for disease (mite washes, nosema, and this fall for the first time viral levels) every year since I started beekeeping.
There is a nosema post in commercial beekeeping forums where I'm talking about my test counts and related thoughts, if your asking.

We manage a thousand head of livestock at any given time on the farm. Disease monitoring is forefront in our herd management. Actions to manage the disease follow afterwards. I implement the same with my hive stock.

The very point that you hold zero weight on disease pressures shows how motivated you actually are in finding out the current state of our industries affairs.

You want me to post links to prove increase in disease pressures in our stock over the last 10 years???? Are you kidding? It has everything to do with pesticide losses. Including potential neonic issues.

If I close my eyes real tight, and walk swiftly into a wall corner...darn that carpenter for building that corner!

What am I going to do with my disease results? Plan of action against them. Also help understand how these pest levels influence colony behaviour as the hives are exposed to surrounding conditions.

It's a matter of knowing what's going on and controlling what we can.

But... Why bother ....

So did I turn you off testing?
 
#209 ·
The very point that you hold zero weight on disease pressures shows how motivated you actually are in finding out the current state of our industries affairs.
I don't hold zero weight. Disease pressures have always had an effect and continue to have an effect across the country irrespective of pesticide pressures. They are an issue on their own and aren't part of the neonic discussion when you get beyond looking at a single season.

If I close my eyes real tight, and walk swiftly into a wall corner...darn that carpenter for building that corner!
Does it matter if you open your eyes when you can't possible avoid the wall anyways? I agree that it does as it is better to know than not even if there is no direct treatment or obvious plan of action, perhaps with good record keeping you could establish useful relationships for the future. It is still a separate issue from neonics when looking beyond a single season.

So did I turn you off testing?
No not at all. It is a separate issue altogether. These diseases exist country/continent wide and if they were the issue, we would see correlating losses over the same area. We don't. The losses are centered in Ontario.

I am a firm believer in Occam's razor - the simplest solution is most often correct. So which is more likely? That higher than normal losses have been caused by:

Disease levels/pressures in Ontario being inexplicably higher than everywhere else for the last 8 years

or

Chronic exposure to an insecticide introduced to the same geographic area during the same period
 
#216 ·
This thread is great. I am glad you all have kept posting even with the tension it seems to be generating. This question with the neonics and bees is polarizing. Thank you to each of you for your thoughts. I do have a question….During the past few seasons in Ontario with the large die offs, were all the beeks affected with high losses or are there some in the same area that have not experienced it?
 
#219 ·
Losses seem to correlate with higher densities of corn and soybean planting. Beekeepers south of me have generally been taking high losses(40-70%) beekeepers north of me have been having more normal losses (15-20%). Small competent beekeepers isolated from agriculture also seem to do fine. This is anecdotal. When the provincial apiarist spoke at our club last spring, he had a map that showed where the reported acute kills were in previous seasons and said that higher winter losses had been in the same areas.
 
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