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  1. #41
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    Jan 2009
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    collbran, co
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    537

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    about time i wonder what gave them the first clue about gmo's and pesticides.

  2. #42
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    there is no "mass die off of pollinators." GMOs have never been linked to any harm whatsoever. To ban them would be a triumph of superstition over science. Not that that is anything new.
    Others might say it is a triumph of right over wrong. or even moral over immoral. Accepting your place as a man rather than god.

    As for opinion of mass die off. Aren't you the one that said somewhere else that 83% losses are acceptable? So just what would you consider a "mass" die off? It is also my understanding from comments in the same post that you may not consider losses losses if they are replaced.

    I on the other hand consider anything over 10% losses the start of mass die off. Which means according to those that track such things we have a mass die off times 3 every year on average.

    I have seen a lot of claims that larger operations take much higher losses than that.

    As for GMO's not being linked to any harm whatsoever. That depends on what you consider harm. Is it a situation that harm must be enough to count? As far as I can see enough harm to count may be near extinction for you to consider it counts.

    It is far to easy to claim "No great losses" but such a comment is subject to what you consider great. How about no fraction of losses? That would in fact be "None". I don't think your no harm claim would hold up under just the fact soil was tilled and planted. So take for example soil that is tilled and planted where it would not have been due to the existence of GMO's. This would count as harm to bees due to GMO's.

    The questions that remain are. Is the harm significant, and or, is the harm unacceptable. At this point I consider any harm unacceptable. it is time to remove the favor from crops and make some consideration for other life forms including bees. It is not a question of if enough food can be grown. they have been able to grow enough food since long before any of these methods existed. It is a matter of increased profits. A desire that can never be satisfied.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #43
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    Jan 2010
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    Ithaca, NY USA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    As for opinion of mass die off. Aren't you the one that said somewhere else that 83% losses are acceptable?
    I wrote a long article on the history of bee die offs. Large scale bee die offs are not new.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5d...it?usp=sharing


    As for GMO's not being linked to any harm whatsoever. That depends on what you consider harm.
    OK. What do you consider harm and was it caused by GMOs?
    Last edited by peterloringborst; 08-26-2014 at 11:10 AM.

  4. #44
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    Jan 2010
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    Ithaca, NY USA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    OK. What do you consider harm and was it caused by GMOs?
    Still waiting for an answer on this one.

  5. #45
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    Jun 2014
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
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    71

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    I love GMOs, and living in the Bay Area I have grown sick and tired of uninformed paranoid morons bad mouthing them.

    History is full of ignorant morons preaching superstition over science, or in a modern version, polarized flavor of the week "superstitious science"

    GMOs come with problems, just like every other option for managing crops, pointing out the problems without understanding the benefits is willfully choosing ignorance and superstition over science.

  6. #46
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    Jul 2008
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    Belfield, North Dakota, USA
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    610

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    There will be a lot of hungry, starving people in the world (here as well as in other countries) without GMO plants.

    Starving bees too.

  7. #47
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    The thing that concerns me most about GMOs is the fact that the technology, as it actually gets used, either produces a toxin (bt) that pests get resistant to faster than they would if it (bt) were applied to actual infestations rather than produced by all the crops.....or it allows the wide broadcast spraying of roundup. In both cases, GMO tech still gets sprayed with most of the pesticides that non GMO crops are using, _and_ they dramatically shorten the number of years that an available environmentally responsible pesticide (bt) will be of use to anyone.

    If GMO tech were used differently in the real world of agriculture, I might feel differently...but the way it is actually used is less responsible then traditional pesticide application. I don't support GMO bans, but I am an intelegent thinking person who sees the tech is being used in a way that doesn't really help anything, and actually causes a great deal of harm. Let's use GMOS in a way that advances our responsibility towards our environment...not move backwards.

    Deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  8. #48
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    Deknow, no disrespect, but please elaborate on how you would grow GMO canola for example.

  9. #49
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    I don't really understand your question.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  10. #50
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    You said " if GMO tech were used differently..." What do you mean by that?

  11. #51
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    It could be used to reduce the amount of pesticides used, increase nutrition, stagger the blooms to foster poll8nators, etc. The way it seems to be mostly used is to allow for more intensive pesticide application as a way to increase yield.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  12. #52
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    In sorry for not quite getting it this early in the morning but why would seed companies do that?

  13. #53
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    ....to produce a product that serves the end customer better?

    Don't get me wring, I understand the motivation behind it.

    It's the motivation of folks who dismiss concerns about GMOs and never discuss the fact that more pesticides get used in growing GMOs that I'm less certain about.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  14. #54
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    Mar 2014
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    Dartmouth, MA
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    98

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agric...-to-yield.html

    Increased pesticide use and marginal increase in yields. I am curious what there is to like about GMO 's. also a great number of seed varieties have been taken out of circulation, which is never a good idea when trying to deal with disease and pest pressure.

  15. #55
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    A bunch of hogwash again, in general pesticide use is down and gene stacking is being used to slow down resistance but poor stewardship of product has lead to most of the issues. Mainly growers not planting the required 'forage' acreage. Are all the farmers lying when they say it allows them to spray less? GMO's haven't yielded, what a joke. How much farm land has been recovered because of the technology and GMO's are bred into the elite varieties which should have no intrinsic yield differences if grown 'conventionally' anyways so that is a stupid argument.

  16. #56
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    Jun 2014
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    San Mateo, CA
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    71

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    I'm thinking that the best use of GMOs right now involve water conservation. I've read that it might be possible to make plants consume less water, or grow in salt water. Agriculture is always limited by one thing and that is water. Take a theoretical example, what if scientists could design tasty crops that grew in ocean water? It's not that far fetched, plenty of plant life grows in the oceans.

    Crippling GMO tech over superstition and paranoia should be a crime, the promises it holds for mankind could be huge.

  17. #57
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    Mar 2014
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    Dartmouth, MA
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    98

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    has pesticide use decreased in gmo crops.

    Just googled these exactly. Do you have info to share regarding reduced use of pesticides? Because a quick search indicates just the opposite.
    I don't necessarily have a problem with GMO's as they are easy to avoid. I do take issue with all the side issues that have developed around control of seed varieties and taking legal action against farmers who save seed. Why should a farmer spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars each year for new seed when they can save a percentage of seed. A practice that has been around for generations.
    I do not see this technology being used for good, just profit.

  18. #58
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by FollowtheHoney View Post
    has pesticide use decreased in gmo crops.

    Just googled these exactly. Do you have info to share regarding reduced use of pesticides? Because a quick search indicates just the opposite.
    I don't necessarily have a problem with GMO's as they are easy to avoid. I do take issue with all the side issues that have developed around control of seed varieties and taking legal action against farmers who save seed. Why should a farmer spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars each year for new seed when they can save a percentage of seed. A practice that has been around for generations.
    I do not see this technology being used for good, just profit.
    Finally somebody gets it!

  19. #59
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    Jul 2008
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    Aberdeen, Idaho
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    458

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    Farmers do not have too plant GMOs. They plant them because they want to. If they wanted the old varieties they would be available. Do not tell me this is not so, I was involved directly in the seed production business. Have you ever heard of the National Small Grains Storage? They maintain almost all of the varieties and germplasm that has ever been collected or developed. If you want to grow almost any variety, even old turkey red wheat, you can get a small sample, and increase the seed all you want.
    If you take the patenting option away from seed production companies, do you remove patenting from everything else too?
    As far as lawsuits go have you actually read the court transcripts or do you just listen to all the mis-information presented on this forum. The actual transcripts are easily found with a google search. The people sued were flagrant violaters. They are really dull reading though compared to the juicy lies that are so often promulgated.
    As far as pesticide use going up or down I will give you one example I am familiar with. Before roundup ready beets the beets were sprayed with herbicide every 7 days for 6 weeks. The mix of herbicides was made up of 4 herbicides. Now they are sprayed once with roundup.
    One of the herbicides used on corn for years was Atrazine. It leeches directly into the water table, and is present in may wells in the corn growing region. Roundup attaches so tight to soil particles that it does not leech. The only way roundup gets into the water is by erosion.

  20. #60
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    5,937

    Default Re: US to ban GMO s and Neonicotinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Burrup View Post
    Atrazine.
    because of its heavy residue properties, it also blew as dust up into the atmosphere, and dropped with rain fall in places far north where the chemical was never used...
    GM corn cropping solved that issue
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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