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  1. #281
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Not even half.
    But those influences are relatively stable within an individual's program. In order for a species to thrive within a fluctuating environment, those influences also must be somewhat self regulating.

    But your point is not really about a percentage.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Not even half.
    Given a beekeeper can also dominate the drone environment from chosen stocks, considerably more than half the dna going forward can be controlled in a largish and relatively isolated outfit.

    Subsequent epigenetic development of the organism doesn't negate these factors. If it did there'd be no evolved behaviours leading to speciation. There'd be no point to competitive mating. Since these things are all but universal we can safely assume that the dna inherited from parents is a critical factor in determining the suitedness of offspring to environment.

    As if we really need another reason.

    You're trying to chuck the baby out again Peter.

    mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
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  3. #283
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    Jan 2010
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    Ithaca, NY USA
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Given a beekeeper can also dominate the drone environment from chosen stocks
    Subsequent epigenetic development of the organism doesn't negate these factors.
    You don't know what you are talking about. You are living in a fairy tale.

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    You don't know what you are talking about. You are living in a fairy tale.
    An intelligent, well reasoned critique. Not ad hominem or content free at all. Well done, you'll make a scientist yet.
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  5. #285
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    Apr 2014
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    An intelligent, well reasoned critique. Not ad hominem or content free at all.
    Mike, if you want to know how well the knowledge of Peter, why do not you ask him?

  6. #286
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Epigenetics is an interesting topic, expecially when referring to the super organism that is a beehive. Problem is, most of us won't ever get a taste of the true genetics of our bees, only phenotypical observations so the whole point of this thread is moot.

  7. #287
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    Apr 2014
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Problem is, most of us won't ever get a taste of the true genetics of our bees, only phenotypical observations so the whole point of this thread is moot.

    Perhaps JRG13.But some of us deeper into crosses.If you start from one strain, the picture is quite clear.As long as you have knowledge in bee genetics.Epigenetic factors are those that allow changes in the normal distribution of marks.They are not visible.They assess.

  8. #288
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Exactly my point Kosta, all we can do is assess at this point, so I don't see the point of arguing genetics vs epigenetics for 99% of people 'breeding' their own bees. Now if we were talking sequencing and marker selection I'd change my tune.

  9. #289
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    Apr 2014
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    Bulgaria
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    You're right JRG13."If I decide to come visit you, but the flight of the aircraft is delayed for any reason, the meeting will not take place.If I were you informed by telephone, the meeting will be a fact."Many questions can be asked in the given example.All of them meet Epigenetics and Genetics.And as Peter pointed out - genetics and epigenetics complement and explain processes invisible to us.Sequencing and markers serve experts to track and specify certain events.They are useful in my orientation to what is the nature of epigenetic factors.This, in turn, correlates with the distribution of the marks.Greetings.

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    99% of people 'breeding' their own bees.
    Why the hesitation about 'breeding' JRG13?

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
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  11. #291
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    I didn't mean much with that mike, just that some people think that unless you have isolated yards and a PhD you should not coin anything you're doing as breeding. I don't agree, so I highlighted it to hint at anyone making their own queens. Khosta, I agree with you, but my point is you can't argue epigenetics very well with a blank sheet of paper on the genetics of the bees you are comparing.

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Khosta, I agree with you, but my point is you can't argue epigenetics very well with a blank sheet of paper on the genetics of the bees you are comparing.

    List is not empty JRG13.I have documentation of your selection.Excellent know who they are instrumental and naturally fertilized.And what are the parental strains.According bee genetics hereditary changes are made ​​during meiosis."I" by the qualitative composition of the diet of the bee larva.In the second case, the leading role was given to Epigenetics.Genome information is accurate JRG13.Within an individual would not be right to show differences under different conditions.But it is a fact right?What to say when these differences create other differences?For example, within one colony.We can easily gather evidence for epigenetic influence.You only need to be observant.Ceteris paribus - What could influence and create differences?Needless to emphasize that for each genotype influence is different.Greetings.

  13. #293
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    Are behaviors solely epigenetic in a beehive? Bees use a lot of communication signalling, genetics aside that can direct hive functions. Then you have super-sister and environmental interactions as well. I understand the philosophy behind the argument, but until you show me your sequencing data showing all loci are fixed for all the genes involved in whatever traits you are looking at and that you even know those genes drive said traits, arguing about genetics and epigenetics on this subject really has no merit. I might even believe it's all epigenetics, but I'm not going to push that philosophy on minimal data. It's why beekeeping seems very locational, but without knowing any marker data, I can't say it's the genetics or epigenetics driving it.

  14. #294
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    Default Re: Our understanding of genetics is changing

    I could be wrong JRG13, but will express my thoughts completely.In my comments no criticism or controversy.You're right about that in providing accurate data.The apiary no scientific laboratory JRG13.My research laboratory is that all these publications written by people / spend time for this / that I've read.Analyzed and consistent with my experience.
    "Bees use many communication signals, genetics aside, who can guide hive functions. Then you have great sister and environmental interactions as well."
    These are the reasons.The result may be different.My thought is that all of these trigger epigenetic mechanisms changing heredity.If you do not eat a permanent colony starter - grower will not have good results.If the entire amount has been genome, it is variable.If the causes can change it, how it will be expressed in an organism?Are not the epigenetic mechanisms that mediate the causes?One genotype carries a "high breeding" or not.We can change this.If everything is right in the cross, why use other methods?If this is the only philosophy, I am a philosopher, not a beekeeper.Greetings.

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