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  1. #1
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    Default Heat exchanger temp setting

    At what temp do you guys set the temperature setting on your honey heat exchanger? How warm do you want the honey coming out at?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    433

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    I shoot for 105F for the honey coming out of the heat exchanger. Too much lower and I am cutting wet wax. I also begin cutting at 1 inch and work my down to 7/8.

  3. #3
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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Pat at C&B suggests trying to stay between 100 and 105 for best separation and getting your blades down around 7/8". I would concur. After repeatedly getting really wet raw cappings out of the bottom on first startup in the morning, a little trick I have discovered is to back your blades off to a little over an inch, pump cappings in for only a couple of minutes first thing in the morning, then shut the pump down for a few minutes to allow the honey to work its way through the wax. After restarting the pump it would always work great the rest of the day. As soon as you start cutting wax then reduce your blades back down under an inch.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Thanks guys! That's very helpful
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Northfield,MN
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    86

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    I keep the water running though the exchanger at about 120 f sometimes less.
    when the honey is the right temp you can here it slapping against the walls of separator to much slapping is not good tho.
    As Jim said the trick in the mornings is to let some honey flow and then let her spin for a while before really getting going.
    I just love it when the wax coming out is dry powder.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
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    14

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Do you have the old style that circulates water or the electric one that circulates vegetable oil? If it's the latter, I set the dial on both of mine at 115F and the honey comes out in the 100-105 range that everyone else mentioned. I also learned the "warm up" trick that Jim uses but it's easier when you have 2 separators, since I pump honey through one and then the other. In the other case, I guess you just have to hurry up and wait. I find earlier in the season if the honey is a bit higher moisture, the wax comes out a bit wetter, but later in the season it comes out like sawdust.

    There are also some different setups with the spray jet. I've seen straight out, straight down, and 45 degree angle down. Anyone else want to weigh in?

  7. #7
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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    We use oil and need to keep the oil temp between 135 and 140 degrees to maintain a honey temp of over 100 degrees when running 2,000+ lbs. per hour.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
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    14

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    This actually raised an interesting question in my mind. Assuming Jim, that we both have 2 4500W elements in our C&B exchangers, is the oil used causing the difference in temperature? I have a single 120 frame extractor, but use 2 heat exchangers and spin floats and pumps on it. I'm using canola oil. Since there are different smoke points for different oils, how much of a factor is it and how much heat does different oil retain? I have also never verified the temperature of the slurry coming out with a thermometer, and just relied on the temp read out. They feel similar to the touch, although that is hardly scientific.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    We are just using a single spinner and heat exchanger with the twin 4500 watt elements. Aside from the fact that you can initially retain more heat with oil it all comes down to whether your elements can maintain the temp whether it be oil or water.....at least that's how it seems to me. The elements rarely shut off when we are running at maximum speed. It's also important to clean out the intake manifold fairly regularly as every pipe that gets plugged reduces its efficiency.
    Here is an interesting note regarding the honey temp readout. One day I noticed that, according to the readout, the honey temp had dropped considerably. It finally occurred to me that a large fan had just been set up nearby. I wrapped a rag around the sending unit to protect it from the air movement and the temp quickly returned to the normal range.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #10
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    May 2014
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    Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, oil will retain more heat. What I'm asking is that since you set your dial to 135 and I set mine to 115, is the oil a factor? Mine doesn't run continually, although it is quite a bit. How often do you change the oil?
    Secondly, C&B now offers a different end cap for those "extracting high volumes" I have disconnected the motor & fin and switched over to this set up.

  11. #11
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    Jun 2012
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    Dawson Creek, BC, Canada
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    184

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasantvalley View Post
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, oil will retain more heat. What I'm asking is that since you set your dial to 135 and I set mine to 115, is the oil a factor? Mine doesn't run continually, although it is quite a bit. How often do you change the oil?
    Secondly, C&B now offers a different end cap for those "extracting high volumes" I have disconnected the motor & fin and switched over to this set up.
    I don't understand. Are you saying that oil holds more heat than water at a given temperature?
    If you are pumping 9000 watts into oil or into water the amount of heat added is equal, but the temperature of the oil will increase more. If your heating elements are running 100%, than using oil instead of water could increase your slurry temperature, by improving the heat exchanger efficiency due to greater tube/shell temperature differential, but the oil doesn't hold more heat.

    Just my thoughts,
    Luke

  12. #12
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    May 2014
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    Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpdog View Post
    I don't understand. Are you saying that oil holds more heat than water at a given temperature?
    If you are pumping 9000 watts into oil or into water the amount of heat added is equal, but the temperature of the oil will increase more. If your heating elements are running 100%, than using oil instead of water could increase your slurry temperature, by improving the heat exchanger efficiency due to greater tube/shell temperature differential, but the oil doesn't hold more heat.

    Just my thoughts,
    Luke
    Maybe I'm overthinking it or poorly worded my thoughts . The old setups circulated water using a boiler or hot water tank. They didn't have the reservoir, at least not that I've ever seen. The newer units are closed circuit and have oil with an element to heat it. So what I'm asking is what is causing the difference in where we set the dial ie. how hot we have to get the oil for a given honey output?
    Maybe this will add to my own confusion, but my "oil temp" readout IS 135F, same as Jim. But the I set dial at 115 to get that.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    I have yet to use mine, production starts for us Tuesday.

    want to hear my set up story?

    My electrician wired in my machine, and asked me to check the drum rotation when I first start it up to be sure he had the wires correct. Well, I finally got the machine anchored to the floor, and turned it on. I had not checked to be sure the drum was rotating the correct direction... flipped the lever open the drum valves and smashed it!!!

    somehow I was able to push the outer drum back into shape without a blemish, I re tightened the ports which were not damaged, and had my machinist rebuild the lever. Works good as new.

    I tell you, its a terrible feeling the moment after you just smash the brand new machine that you had been waiting to get for 10 years... lol, and knowing that machine needs to work right away!
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    If I do my conversions correctly, as I work in Celsius , 100 degrees F -32 *5/9 = 38 Degrees Celsius. Thats warmer than I had anticipated. I was thinking the honey would be warmed to 30 Degrees Celsuis, 30*9/5+32= 86 F
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sidney, Montana
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    37

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    I like to run my honey temp at 103 and to do this the oil ranges from 135-150. The different range on the oil temp varies based on the temp of the honey going in as well as the speed at which it is passing through, I also believe the moisture % of the honey plays a small factor as well. One cup of hot water dumped in the spinner 5 mins after start up and a little before the honey starts to enter makes a world of difference loosening up the wax wall and getting it ready for the day.

  16. #16
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    Jun 2012
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    Dawson Creek, BC, Canada
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    184

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasantvalley View Post
    Maybe I'm overthinking it or poorly worded my thoughts . The old setups circulated water using a boiler or hot water tank. They didn't have the reservoir, at least not that I've ever seen. The newer units are closed circuit and have oil with an element to heat it. So what I'm asking is what is causing the difference in where we set the dial ie. how hot we have to get the oil for a given honey output?
    Maybe this will add to my own confusion, but my "oil temp" readout IS 135F, same as Jim. But the I set dial at 115 to get that.
    I don't have a honey exchanger, but I suspect one of two causes. Either the dial is out of calibration (likely a set screw holds it in place), or the dial controls the heat medium outlet temp, and you are monitoring the medium inlet temp. Likely the dial is out.

    Or i suppose the temperature indicator could be out of cal, but i doubt it unless it was wrapped past full scale.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    groveton tx
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    138

    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    How hot does your honey come out of your respective hot rooms? That is most likely the difference. Oh, a 120 for 2 heat exchanges and separators and a 120 for 1 heat exchange and separator. Half the flow as normal would not need the high temp.

  18. #18
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Quote Originally Posted by MNbees View Post
    As Jim said the trick in the mornings is to let some honey flow and then let her spin for a while before really getting going.
    I just love it when the wax coming out is dry powder.
    Is the purpose of letting it spin for a while with the initial load to help warm up the drum or just to give it extra time to spin off the honey? How many folks actually hook up the water sprayer? I have heard it sprays WAY too much water from factory, but also hear its critical to have water hooked up to have the wax come out like sawdust.

  19. #19
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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    Is the purpose of letting it spin for a while with the initial load to help warm up the drum or just to give it extra time to spin off the honey? How many folks actually hook up the water sprayer? I have heard it sprays WAY too much water from factory, but also hear its critical to have water hooked up to have the wax come out like sawdust.
    The residual wax in the drum is pretty dry depending on how long it was run after "dumping" the honey from the previous session. It just takes a bit for the new wet cappings to migrate through and begin flowing again.
    Yes, in my opinion, the factory setup runs too much water through the cooling jet. The nozzle is supposedly calibrated for a gallon an hour at 40 psi. I have reduced the pressure back to 20 psi and, as I mentioned earlier, put in a solenoid valve to shut off the flow when the pump isn't operating. The cappings are still coming out fairly dry (of honey) but with very little additional added moisture from the water jet. I have only run it for short periods without the water so I really couldn't say how they would operate with no water at all.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Heat exchanger temp setting

    How often do you guys take out the drum and clean. I have talked to one guy that cleans it after everyday. Another every friday, another guys cleans it out after every pull. Granulation is a concern up here with canola honey, so I suppose that is the main reason for the frequent cleanings.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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