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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    739

    Default Cut out Question

    Did 2 cut outs today on a trailer. Smaller sized hives that were both only 2 to 3 months old. Put both of them in separate nucs on top of cinder blocks so they are less than 12 inches from the old hive location. I could not stay till dark so I am leaving them till tomorrow evening so all the foragers can move in.

    First one filled 4 medium frames of brood and one frame of honey. That was it and did it old school without vacuum. It went better than I thought. Fairly certain I got the queen, the bees moved to the nuc fast and were fanning their scent fast after I moved the second to last piece comb.

    Second hive apparently had some issues over time. The comb had been hit with either wax moths or hive beetles in the past. They were rebuilding the comb and I saw no sight of recent issues, but there was very little comb worth salvaging. It didn't have lots of brood, almost no honey, had scattered larvae and capped brood, but darn they were hot. So I pulled out the vacuum and tried to get them all. But it was a perfect set up to see all the hive and comb, any runners, and there were no hiding places. It was the best view I have had on a cut out if you ignored the occasion drip of honey in the face.

    Here is my issue. The vacuum is a home made job that uses a 5 gallon bucket as a holding chamber. When I go to dump the bees out, most explode into the air. I am assuming that the queen, if she in the bucket, will slide into the hive with all the bees. And she should then try to hide in the frames of comb that I have rubber banded up. It would seem like within time all the other bees follow. But I have had about 50:50 success with this in getting the queen. And this time, it seemed like about 75% of the bees hit the air and moved back to the hive site.

    IS there a way to get the bees into the nuc without so many going airborne.

    By the time I left it appeared most were back at the old hive site even though the nuc entrance (and maybe the queen) is sitting 10 inches away. I will retrieve the nucs tomorrow night, but have no time to vacuum again tomorrow and they get sprayed on Thursday.

    Hints from experts is appreciated.

    PS. Looked like there were about a half dozen bees killed in the vac, so I am not worried about that issue.
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 5 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    knoxville, tn
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    you might try spraying them with sugar syrup to keep them from flying too bad.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Greenfield, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    I use a 5 gallon bucket on my vacuum as well. I loosen the lid so I can open it quickly, give the bucket a good thump on the ground, and then crack the lid just enough to give them a good spray with sugar water. Then you can kind of just dump them where you want them to go.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    St. Petersburg, fl, USA
    Posts
    186

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    I have posted before about the vac I built. Hopefully I will figure out how to post pictures soon. I built a box the size of a deep hive. I put a groove the width of a saw kerf (1/8 inch) around three sides then I slid a sheet of 18 guage steel into the groove. On the front I put a piece of the same wood under the sheet metal so that when I pull it out there is no bee excape. the top has a window screen layer about an inch down then a plexiglass piece fits snugglly on the top. I attach a shop vac to the box with the top of a tea strainer anchored over it and then I have another vac hose on the other end to suck up the bees. I use paper towel in th box to cushion the landing. when I am done vacuuming I pull of the plexiglass and the bees have plenty of air. when we get to the apiary the box sets on top of a hive with frames and I pull the bottom out. the bees go into the hive with a little coaxing and the blower end of the vac. We put a queen excluder under the entrance for a few days until the bees have started building comb. We usually only save a little brood to anchor the queen. We also close the hive up for 24 hours so the bees can repair any damaged comb and clean up any spilled honey. This prevents robbing. Our cut outs are running about 60-80% survival of the queen.
    We check the cut outs after a week and if there is no eggs are brood we offer a frame of eggs and brood from one of the established hives so they can make a queen.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    knoxville, tn
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    A robo style bee vac is still the way to go. Bees are already in a hive with frames of foundation/comb and there is no shaking or spraying with syrup.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    knoxville, tn
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    On the cut out shim, instead of using number 8 wire (which is flimsy and can fall out of the frame) use a propolis trap, it is more ridgid and thin.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    739

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    G3 - That thing looks sweet, but also looks like it would weigh about 30 pounds. My wood working skills are not up to par with that yet, but if and when they get there, I might try to build one.

    I am not going to spend money on one, just do not do enough cuts and still doing them as favors for free. So it is not worth me spending money on. Would rather dump that into frames and maybe pollen traps.

    Thanks for the info.
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 5 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    739

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    Jim - If you figure out how to post photos, one or two of your set up would be nice. Maybe one day my wood working skills (and a table saw) will be up to par to attempt.

    Dale - Think I may try spraying them, used water once and just didn't seem to help. Probably not enough was used. What ratio of sugar water you using - 1 to 1 or what.

    Thanks everyone again.
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 5 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Clover, WV
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    You can cut out a piece of plywood that is 16.25" x 20", with a hole in the center the size of the top of the bucket. That will let you get the lid off and flip the bucket over, so they have to go through the hive to get out. I have left the bucket sitting on top a hive box all night before, and it has worked well every time.
    John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
    14 hives - All cutouts and swarms

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    739

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    Cub - Now that seems like it would work really well. I already have two migratory lids that have holes in them for feeders and don't use them. I could pull the screen off and use that. Will keep that in mind.

    Thanks again everyone
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 5 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,706

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    0608141119.jpg
    This design is about a simple as it gets with minimal air leaks. Just remove the top section, add your cutout brood comb super(s) from the removal above the screen section, install your inner cover and outer cover and pull the screen section out a couple of inches. The bees will immediately start moving up. The next day set the new hive on a bottom board and remove the vac box.
    The suction adjustment is on the back side of the top section.
    Typically the vac box does not have frames in it for a cut out. I will use drawn frames when vacuuming swarms.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lower Lake, California, USA
    Posts
    173

    Default Re: Cut out Question

    I bought a 'Bushkill' bee vac (10 frame) then made a eight frame. They allow me to place cut comb above the box with the bees & change boxes for additional bee removals. I like the control they allow for air flow & the ability to configure as I need.

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