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Thread: Dark Queen

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    49,290

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    >"Queens are significantly darker when held at constant temperatures of 30.5°C during the last instar and pupal stages compared to 35.5°C."

    I've noticed they are also significantly darker when their mother was significantly darker... or there are a lot of darker drones around...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    Influence of Temperature on Rate of Development and Color Patterns of Queen Honey Bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae)
    SPIVAK, MARLA; ZELTZER, ABBIE; DEGRANDI-HOFFMAN, GLORIA; MARTIN, JOSEPH H.
    Environmental Entomology, Volume 21, Number 2, April 1992, pp. 364-370(7)
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00021
    Thanks Bernhard.
    A bigger issue with chilled queen cells is likely to be wings which are not fully developed. Guess it depends how early on in development the chilling occurs. The last 48 hours before emergence are not so critical.

    My queens are all dark like these ones.

    queen-minnowburn1small.jpg turn-and-mark-cage.jpg

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Okanagan BC Canada
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    I love dark queens. this one is like tiger stripes! Very cool thanks for sharing.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    555

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    Influence of Temperature on Rate of Development and Color Patterns of Queen Honey Bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae)
    SPIVAK, MARLA; ZELTZER, ABBIE; DEGRANDI-HOFFMAN, GLORIA; MARTIN, JOSEPH H.
    Environmental Entomology, Volume 21, Number 2, April 1992, pp. 364-370(7)
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00021

    "Queens are significantly darker when held at constant temperatures of 30.5°C during the last instar and pupal stages compared to 35.5°C."
    "This study and that of Spivak et al (1992) demonstrated that the expression of genes for color is modulated by constant temperatures."
    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/fil...l-00891063.pdf
    Thanks, that's an interesting article!

    Also cites a couple of other interesting article on cuticle colors, on of which mentions there is a recessive gene that suppresses all yellow (somewhat of an opposite of the cordovan gene), another that mentions there are probably at least seven loci involved in bee morphs.

    The better we understand the factors in play with cuticle color, the easier (and more affordable) it becomes to get rough estimates of mating population control.

    Honey bee "looks" really do deserve more attention, in my opinion.
    www.apisrustica.com (French-only website) Bee Breeding: Canadian nuclei & queens
    www.facebook.com/Apis.rustica

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    555

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by juniorbeeman View Post
    I love dark queens. this one is like tiger stripes! Very cool thanks for sharing.
    I've been calling them tigers too. :P

    Got them for the first time from the local research center's breeding program last year, never saw them from other beekeepers before.

    https://www.facebook.com/Apis.rustic...type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/Apis.rustic...type=3&theater

    I never really thought of them as dark queens, though. My pitch-black queens are what I consider to be my dark queens, but sadly I didn't take many pictures of them. Here's one of Lauri's, though: https://www.facebook.com/25695497104...type=3&theater
    Last edited by Dominic; 02-12-2015 at 04:05 PM.
    www.apisrustica.com (French-only website) Bee Breeding: Canadian nuclei & queens
    www.facebook.com/Apis.rustica

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Lipik, Croatia
    Posts
    86

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >"Queens are significantly darker when held at constant temperatures of 30.5°C during the last instar and pupal stages compared to 35.5°C."

    I've noticed they are also significantly darker when their mother was significantly darker... or there are a lot of darker drones around...
    I wonder why

    At my place we are blessed with carnies. There is so much diversity within carnies, that I never wish any other to try. But also cause carnies are here native, they are most suitable for our area..
    Here are pics of several queens from my hives..









    Attached Images Attached Images
    The one who flies is worthy.The one who is worthy flies.The one who doesn't fly isn't worthy. Il gruppo TNT.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    portland, dorset, UK
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Double post.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    portland, dorset, UK
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Dark Queen

    Queens that chilled during their growth phase turn darker than the breed usually is
    Although it's an old thread, there's an extra reference from Jay Smith who came to the same conclusion through observation as early as 1923, the following quote from 'Queen Rearing Simplified' is copy/pasted from MB's transcript on his website.

    A number of methods are used to get the virgin queen safely into the nucleus in which she is to lay after mating. One is by allowing the queen in the cell which is kept in a strong colony for incubation to emerge in a nursery cage. I used that method for several years, but have discarded it since I could not get so good, vigorous queens in that manner. I found there are two reasons for this. One is because the bees are unable to cluster closely around the cells in order to keep the temperature right, and the result is faulty incubation of the tender pupa. This defect manifests itself in two ways, by smaller queens and darker queens. If the cells are kept too cold, it makes the queens dark.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm

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