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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Maricopa, Ariz, USA
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    90

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I think you guys are over blowing the whole thing...

    first off it was a bit of grass, along the field edge, and he texted his displeasure... not like Josh drove through a standin crop of wheat
    Well, there ya go Josh……..just print off a copy of this and hand it to the man………….should end well!


    You have computer access…….watch the weather……it's not like the work 'suddenly' became a desperate situation or that it couldn't have waited a day or two. Farmers/ranchers share coffee on a near daily basis…..as some one else already pointed out……..others have already heard the story so you've likely cost yourself potential locations. Wrong attitude or repeats will surely cost you this one. Guaranteed it would if it was my land.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I think you guys are over blowing the whole thing...

    first off it was a bit of grass, along the field edge, and he texted his displeasure... not like Josh drove through a standin crop of wheat
    Exactly, If there was anything on the land other than wild grass I would not even have thought of driving on the field. This was an unfenced pasture, they mow it down and make hay. The road was not really a road, it was a nice dirt equipment access to a field a quarter mile away, along side the pasture where my hives are. Let me make it even clearer the ground I drove on has never been tilled for a crop or had a crop on it. I made a decision that instead of putting the truck in 4x4 and absolutely making the road un-travelable both for them and myself, I would idle along the edge of the firm pasture land and in 3-4 days that grass would stand right back up, no ruts were made, drove in the same tracks on the way back.

    I was not cranking donuts and wrecking his land. I was doing the least amount of damage I could.

    You guys are right I should have let him know that I needed to access the hives while it was wet. In the moment I didn't even think of that, I think I made the decision anyone would have made. Even himself, which is why he realized it wasn't a big deal after all.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,598

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    I work with a great farmer who gives me nearly unlimited access to his land. The only restriction he ever mentioned was "stay off the fields". Crops or not, I believe that they pay very close attention to the state of their fields, so any thing not as they left it will hit their radar.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Can you share the exact text, please?
    Landowner: I see you have been driving to your hives. Thought we had discussed you wouldn't drive when it's wet and such. Driving down our feed not sure what to think

    JW: Sorry we did not discuss that. I kept the tracks right on the edge so as not to make ruts. Clearly you feel otherwise.

    JW: Do I owe you a couple hay bales? I didn't realize I was doing damage

    LO: No, no it's all fine. I just was surprised.

    JW: I have to be in them about once a week this time of year and add new equipment. Next time I will be sure to talk to you first if the weather is less than perfect like its been for nearly 2 weeks now. Good for the crops though right? Or are you ready for some sunshine?

    LO: It's all good. Yep waiting on sunshine wanna make hay.


    As you can see it was a miscommunication on when I would be out at the hives and a lack of understanding that during this time of year double nucs that I run need additional caretaking and its exactly that time of year. Offered to replace what he felt I had damaged which was obviously nothing as Ian previously said, and talked about weather, something we in any agriculture feel the need to talk about every day. End of the day its all good, he really was just disappointed that he couldn't cut hay yet.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,138

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Respect.
    Until it is firmly rooted, do not take it lightly. Like it or not, that is what he was concerned you were driving on.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    What I was really looking for here was stories of disputes with land owners.....

    I handled mine professionally and swiftly and it really was a non-issue.

    I want to hear some Hatfield and McCoy beekeeping stories.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,138

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    If you really want to hear stories about disputes rather than disputes avoided; I will be blunt; you will have your own soon enough.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    If you really want to hear stories about disputes rather than disputes avoided; I will be blunt; you will have your own soon enough.
    I hope you don't watch action movies with that mentality.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    groveton tx
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Well, we know why you call yourself saltybee now!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,993

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    Well, there ya go Josh……..just print off a copy of this and hand it to the man………….should end well!
    you can deal with reason, or you can deal with jerks. In this case, its pretty obvious the issue has been dealt with reason...
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,208

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    probably this is ya had to be there but if there is a road or drive way it will be much more firm than tilled land. stay on the roadway. just comman sense to me but I grew up on a farm.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,138

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by babybee View Post
    Well, we know why you call yourself saltybee now!
    Little harsh? Me?
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,999

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    I don't think you should contact him whenever you are going there to discuss. That is wasting his time & making too big a deal of it.

    He has expressed his displeasure at wheel tracks in his pasture. So apologise but explain why you did it just so he doesn't think you did it out of stupidity. And from now on use the road, problem solved.

    Oh, beekeeping is weather dependant. If weather has rendered the road impassable, don't pass it.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Maricopa, Ariz, USA
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    This has been a good thread. Hopefully many of the inexperienced folks have paid heed and learned from it. Josh I'm glad it worked out…..I'll bet you never do it again without the blessing of the landowner. In post #22 you stated "You guys are right, I should have let him know."…..you should have left it at that…..trying to deflect responsibility by later stating "I think I made the decision anyone would have" or agreeing with anyone that the landowner was "just having a bad day" is a recipe for subsequent issues. He contacted you about it…….that makes it an issue…..as Jim said…"it's his land, he makes the rules". View it as a learning experience, accept it and move on. I can't speak to Canada but in the US….driving on wet roads or wet off road is addressed in Code of Federal Regulations, Title Code 36 which covers National Forests, Bureau of Land Management, National Parks among others…..if found guilty, it is punishable by fines and/or imprisonment. Most any state with public lands has similar regulations.

    Ian…..I guess you're calling me a jerk for stating facts……1500 miles provides you that opportunity.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    953

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The landowner is always right. Like it or not, we are guests on their private property and must abide by their rules whether we think they are logical or not. ....
    Jim, just a note to express appreciation for your views.
    Thank you for the common sense, reality check comments that you are known for.
    Keep it coming! Reality rules!
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,993

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post

    Ian…..I guess you're calling me a jerk for stating facts……1500 miles provides you that opportunity.
    .....


    beekeepers can deal with land owners who are reasonable, or they can deal with land owners who are jerks... I don't keep hives on property owned by jerks... To me it sounds as if Josh is keeping his hives on a land owner who is reasonable.
    Last edited by Ian; 06-27-2014 at 11:18 PM.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Arras, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    .....


    beekeepers can deal with land owners who are reasonable, or they can deal with land owners who are jerks... I don't keep hives on property owned by jerks... To me it sounds as if Josh is keeping his hives on a land owner who is reasonable.
    Yeah it is nice up here. We have the luxury of thousands of square miles and farmers practically begging to have hives on their property. Might be a different word for some. Heck I have some who mow the hay and even make special driveways so I can have separate access to my yard. Amazing what 15 kgs a year of honey will do. I treat them with respect but I don't need to put up with any guff either. Land owners up here have quarter sections. They couldn't give two hoots about 200 yards of tire tracks through a 160acre field.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,993

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by JodieToadie View Post
    farmers practically begging to have hives on their property. ... I have some who mow the hay and even make special driveways so I can have separate access to my yard. Amazing what 15 kgs a year of honey will do. I treat them with respect but I don't need to put up with any guff either.
    That sounds very familiar for me too Jodie. I have two yards where as my land owner mows the driveway up to my yard (stopping short of the beeyard LOL) I have two bee yards, right in the farm yard, couple hundred feet from the yard. These people have apple orchards and large gardens, and love having my hives within sight of their coffee table window. I have had guys come to me and spend an hour scouting yards on their property, because they want bees. I have had guys kick beekeepers out of the area so that my hives could reside. It makes for awkward phone calls from these other beekeepers LOL. Keeping bees on someones property goes farther than just placing a yard. Its the relationship with the land owner and all the other farmers in the area which keeps a beekeeper his territory. I provide a service to the area, pollination, and in return I get access to the bounty the land provides. I am raising a family in the area, and support my community and the community has turned around to support me. I know this model of beekeeping is not realistic for some models of beekeeping... but Im sure the better beekeepers out there follow the same philosophy as I do regardless how far they move bees around.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The landowner is always right. Like it or not, we are guests on their private property and must abide by their rules whether we think they are logical or not. These problems are best averted first by a lot of communication upfront. <snip>
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    Respect.
    Until it is firmly rooted, do not take it lightly. Like it or not, that is what he was concerned you were driving on.
    Two gems, both full of common sense.

    In reading the "text transcript" as a landowner, I see several things that I would have taken exception to. The land owner "appears" to be "all good" with things, but trust me, he will remember the incident and text exchange. In my opinion the best things you can do now is stay on the road, stay out of there when it's wet, and definitely don't push any more of the land owner's buttons.

    Best wishes,
    Ed

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,227

    Default Re: Angry landowners

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshW View Post
    Landowner: I see you have been driving to your hives. Thought we had discussed you wouldn't drive when it's wet and such. Driving down our feed not sure what to think

    JW: Sorry we did not discuss that. I kept the tracks right on the edge so as not to make ruts. Clearly you feel otherwise.

    JW: Do I owe you a couple hay bales? I didn't realize I was doing damage

    LO: No, no it's all fine. I just was surprised.

    JW: I have to be in them about once a week this time of year and add new equipment. Next time I will be sure to talk to you first if the weather is less than perfect like its been for nearly 2 weeks now. Good for the crops though right? Or are you ready for some sunshine?

    LO: It's all good. Yep waiting on sunshine wanna make hay.


    As you can see it was a miscommunication on when I would be out at the hives and a lack of understanding that during this time of year double nucs that I run need additional caretaking and its exactly that time of year. Offered to replace what he felt I had damaged which was obviously nothing as Ian previously said, and talked about weather, something we in any agriculture feel the need to talk about every day. End of the day its all good, he really was just disappointed that he couldn't cut hay yet.
    Next time would you do us a favor please and tell us the whole story w/ all you have to reveal, like actual quoteable text messages? It will save the rest of us taxing our imaginations filling in the blanks in your story. This was almost kinda like that guy w/ the bees that moved in to a short stack of shallows who let us all go around thinking it might have been bees robbing honey from them when all along he had a video of a swarm moving into the equipment, but he didn't say so until much later after he got pissed at all of the questions he got, especially mine.

    On the off chance I will cause you to become angry to, is that the actual text or the way you remember it?

    You want to hear landowner vs beekeeper interactions that didn't go well? Believe it or not I don't have any.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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