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  1. #201
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Well, many species have become extinct over the eons of time. If that is not a form of "natural selection", what is it?
    Would you call being made extinct by a (natural) giant meteorite 'natural selection'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post

    I don't see a reason why extinction of individual species would not continue - regardless of what man might do.
    Of course it will. It happens all the time. That doesn't mean there is the slightest reason to think the honey bee is under any such threat.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  2. #202

    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    I know of some reasons and those ar dogmatism and ideology.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post

    It now seems that Mike agrees with Daniel Y's earlier post that he called nonsense!
    OK It is possible, but so unlikely as to be irrelevant. (There's nothing wrong with developing conversations exposing flaws in previous positions Graham. Its called constructive dialogue.)

    We seem to be in a position of understanding that while new - or existing - predators might theoretically wipe out the honeybee, there is no reason at all to think that is a threat. And that most (99.5% was it) extinction causes are external to the species - that is species don't often (understatement) evolve themselves, as it were, to death.

    Back in the world of what actually happens, some of us understand that natural selection is the tendency to propagate much more from the fittest, resulting (through heritable traits and qualities) in the best of the present genes making more of the next generation than their competitors; and that this is necessary in order to stay ahead of the constant evolution of their predators - a term that includes micro-organisms and parasites.

    And that that means that any beekeeper who doesn't do the same will have natural selection do it for him - by deselecting his bees.

    That's the reality. And the only bit we have to think about.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  4. #204
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    I know of some reasons and those ar dogmatism and ideology.
    Darn book learning, eh Bernhard. Back the the forest, where real men learn real things, eh?

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  5. #205

    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    No Mike, no. You better keep up with the latest research. Here is the stuff that has been found out in 2014. Ten pages. Interesting stuff among it.

    http://scholar.google.de/scholar?as_...=2014&as_vis=1

  6. #206
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Canterbry, UK
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    1,797

    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    No Mike, no. You better keep up with the latest research. Here is the stuff that has been found out in 2014. Ten pages. Interesting stuff among it.

    http://scholar.google.de/scholar?as_...=2014&as_vis=1
    That's a google scholar result page Bernahrd. I'm sure there's tons of interesting stuff in those links. But what exactly is relevant to our discussion and why?

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    148

    Default Re: papers provide conclusive evidence that the pesticides are causing the mass death

    After this discussion, I was interested to read BlueRidgeBee's Notes from a talk by Dr. Jeff Pettis, Beltsville Bee Lab given in North Carolina. From the Q&A:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidgeBee View Post
    Wild bees and other pollinators: they are being impacted by same factors/chems as honeybees. 1 type of honeybee in US; 35K [species of] native pollinators. Many show drastic declines.

    Europe, other areas that have banned neonics -- grand experiment going on and he says. Data not in re: has the ban had impact. What is known in US: when commercial bees are near ag crops, don't do as well as wild environments. Period. Grand experiment going on in Europe, he hopes they are keeping good data. Good comparison can be attained on canola fields. Neonics can be very persistent in soil when not exposed to light, can last multiple years. Can get accumulation. Dandelions, for example (among others), can pull it up from soil and expose pollinators.

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