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Leaving enough honey

6K views 24 replies 15 participants last post by  F6Hawk 
#1 ·
A local Beek told me to leave about 60# of honey for winter per hive. The other day, I extracted (4) medium frames and got 8 lbs of honey. That means 16 lbs per medium 8-frame box, or (4) mediums of honey on top of 3 mediums for brood. Sounds like a lot of boxes to me...
 
#3 ·
Should be getting more like about 35-40 lbs of honey from a full medium, 30-35 on a full shallow, and near 80 on a full deep. These figures are what i've been told and seen others get from their hives in general..

I've been told between 50-60 lbs for my hive for winter stores, which i run all deep 8 frame so i figure the top box full and they got it made..
 
#6 ·
Good question and one I have wondered about.

The amount to leave, I would think, would also have to include some fairly large quantities of honey in the brood chambers (on the periphery).

I want to get down to just a couple of boxes of bees to overwinter, so how do I calculate what to actually leave? Just guestimate what is in the frames and then add in some from the honey supers?
 
#7 ·
All depends on your location, here in southern Ohio it's advisable to go into winter with at least 1 deep of stores above a deep brood chamber, there are beekeepers who will use 1 medium of stores above a deep brood chamber and call it " hive and a half," I think it is wise though to look further ahead then just winter and think about how much of the stores will be used for spring build up. :)
 
#8 ·
An old bathroom scale and a two foot square piece of plywood tells me when they have enough. I tilt the hive sideways and put the plywood down and position the scale so when I rock the hive to the other side it sits squarely on the scale. Then I balance the scale and look for a weight of 125 to 150 for a double deep. Less I feed them and more I check to see if they are queenless and have backfilled the broodnest. A colony that is solid honey has little room to cluster and needs some empty comb for that purpose. They winter better with some empty frames in the center.
 
#9 ·
I've always averaged a quart of honey per medium frame. Some make more, some less but around 30 lb to a ten frame box.

My bees are Russian ferel mutts and will winter on nothing. So if you have Itialians don't pay this any mind.

Mine will get thru the winter with no noticeable depletion of stores. Once spring buildup starts say around Febuary they go thru a lot. They will starve to death in march.

As soon as the temps start getting above 50 I start feeding a little to boost spring buildup.
I bring single deeps thru every year and am yet to lose my first one. These usually have 4 frames full and some on the other frames. I'd like them to weigh 50 lb or better but have brought several thru that didn't weigh over 35 lb in October.

Once I brought one thru with about two frames of honey and ten lbs of damp sugar on the top bars. Long story, this was not by choice nor ideal but it worked.

In my double deeps October will see the top deep completely full. Feb 1 it will look the same way. By the time nectar starts coming in it will have a honey band above the brood but will not have a frame of capped honey anywhere.

If I wasn't wanting to feed in the early spring I'd want my hives to weigh 100 lbs minimum. 150 being better.
Woody Roberts
 
#16 ·
With a small 2-frame tangential Dadant. Going to try a bigger, motorized radial tomorrow on 6 frames. As for long enough, I have no idea, cuz I am on my own. But it APPEARED there wasn't much left in the combs.
 
#11 ·
by the time the first frost gets here they will have over half of those bottom three boxes filled with honey.
as far south as you are i would guess four eight frame medium boxes would be enough for overwintering.
 
#12 ·
No matter how much you leave there is a long, hot - probably dry - summer still ahead. If you leave 60 pounds of honey that equals about $300 retail in my neck of the woods.

So what if they eat all of it during dearth between now and fall? Then you have to spend another $30 to get them back up to weight for winter - leaving you $30 in the hole.

Whereas if you take just half of it now and sell it for $150 then even if you have to replace it now with $45 worth of sugar ($15 for the 30 lb you rob, and $30 to get them up to 60 lb in the fall) you are still in the black by $105. Not counting other expenses of course.

If you take $150-200 worth of honey, eventually you will have a vested financial interest in keeping your bees healthy - not just a casual (hobby type) one.

One way is a hobby that costs money and the other is a hobby that makes a bit of money - and a lot more motivation to keep your bees fed and healthy year after year. And a lot different point of view for your wife if you decide you want 25 hives.

So in theory, making a profit is in the long term interest of the bees - in theory.

Just a thought.
 
#14 ·
Ditto too! But you need to have a brood break in July-early August, drop med for mites during that time and then feed like crazy to get them up to 60 lbs going in to late fall so it's tricky.
Most of my bees are carni mutts so they will slow down on eating during the hot months but the tricky part is getting the population back up before the end of September. The italians that I keep in another yard will just go crazy and rob each other for three months.
 
#15 ·
makes sense david. so far i've not seen a colony go through anywhere near 2 supers of honey to get through the summer dearth here. i suppose it could happen if we got into an extreme drought though. my bees are brood breaking or at least brooding very little during that time and really don't go through that much of their stores. last year the abundance of rain keep a little field forage available from the end of the main flow pretty much until the fall blooms arrived. the other thing i've noticed is that they really don't start burning through much of their winter stores until february when brooding starts back up. i found that leaving two supers of honey over the single deep is more than is necessary, even for getting a strong spring build up. i am extracting some frames from last year that they didn't even use.
 
#17 ·
You probably extracted most of the honey just fine. It doesn't take a lot of spinning with a tangential extracter. Mine holds 3 in tang position and 6 radial. Other than having to flip them tangential is far faster than radial extracting and requires much lower speed. Your comb probably wasn't fully drawn and filled. It will get better.
 
#18 ·
I think a full medium will hold more than your calculations. In my 10 frame mediums I usually get 35-40 pounds of honey. That's assuming they're wall to wall capped. Not all of them are. Going into the winter, you want a heavy hive. I don't worry so much about the total weight of honey in the supers, I just want my hive to be heavy. Takes a little practice but you'll get the hang of whether or not it's full of stores.
 
#19 ·
Back to your original question. Only leave your 3 medium brood boxes for winter. There is adequate space in 3 - 8 frame medium boxes to over winter a cluster of bees and their stores. Do Not leave extra honey supers on over winter!!! The decisions you need to make for your area are; when do I take the honey supers off, and do I need to feed them in the fall to build up stores if they don't have the 60 pounds needed??

If you had one of those massive colonies going into fall you might leave a 4th box but it would be unusual that it would be needed.
 
#20 ·
Give this a try. Next time weigh a frame (I wouldn't bother doing them all) before you extract it. A kitchen scale that can go up to 10 pounds should be fine. You are just doing ball park. Then after you extract it weigh it again. I don't what it should weigh when fully extracted (maybe someone else can chime in) but it should be pretty light. The only frame I have that is dry and it is bone dry, no way you will get it that light.

I have heard some people say they like putting them on weight with some weight left so they refill them quickly.
 
#21 ·
I use mainly Russian bees in 8 frame mediums. Last year, my hives were going great until things got really cold for a few weeks and that was the end of the bees. They had easily 70 to 80 pounds of honey in supers. This year, I want to over winter with 3 boxes maximum -- maybe two. My thinking goes like this.... . I think that if I can condense them down they will be more efficient in their cluster. Also, I am thinking that leaving a lot of honey in several supers only adds to the chill factor -- that is, the honey supers get so cold they act like a block of ice in an ice chest. In winter, when a warm day comes along, that mass of cold honey in frames just keeps the bees cold and clustered and may keep them from moving about.

I understand that in my area it is a good idea to leave about 50 to 60 pounds for the bees and I know roughly how much each frame full of honey weighs. What what I am trying to figure out, is how to determine with some accuracy, the capped honey in the brood chambers. It seems that there could be 20 to 30 pounds of honey stored in the entire periphery of the brood chambers and this would go along way toward the 60 pounds needed to over winter. So, do I just guess based upon rough proportion or is there another more accurate method?

Sorry, I'm just trying to figure this out.
 
#22 · (Edited)
A couple of thoughts here on some of the trains of thought mentioned above. Just to clarify, you want a certain amount of honey on the bees at the end of the Fall and going into winter. Do what you must so the hive will enter the Winter with adequate stores to support the cluster through until Spring.

The type of bees you have will dictate the minimum stores necessary for them to succeed. Italian bees have large brood nests and don't cluster as tightly, so they use a lot more honey over the winter (and, during a dearth in the summer). Some of the other bees (Carniolan in particular) shut down brood rearing to a crawl and conserve their stores, both in a dearth and in winter).

With my BeeWeaver and Minnesota hygienic bees, four or five frames of honey in a deep brood chamber will get them through the winter, barely -they shut down or keep a small brood nest during the winter and stop brood rearing over 100 degrees OAT). I'm trying an Italian strain now and will leave twice that much to insure their success. In Cheyenne, Wyoming, in the mid 1970's, and Anchorage, Alaska, in the 1980's two deeps (including the brood nest) was enough for the winter. Your mileage may vary.

This past winter here in zone 7, I left an extra deep or medium of honey on, and the bees built to numbers I'd never seen before, so my minimum for honey stores is going up. They seemed to do much better on honey than sugar water. HTH :)

P.S. F6Hawk: Having been stationed in Daleville in 1971, I have an idea of your climate. My grandson was born in Enterprise while my son went to flight school at Ft Rucker 30 years after I graduated. You will likely have some nectar coming in through the winter. :)
 
#23 ·
Shannon, did this without reading your reply. Going in, one frame was 5.0 lbs. Afterwards, it was 1.8 lbs. So 3.2 of honey and cappings removed.
 
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