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  1. #1
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    Default super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    I Put a honey super(med.) on my first hive. I am using plastic foundation and I misted the foundation with 1:1 syrup spray. This took place 5 days ago. I peeked down through the inner cover hole and looking down right between the center frames, I see nothing drawn. There are a few bees in there but no work being done. Is 5 days not enough time for them? Is the plastic foundation an issue? Should I take one of the undrawn frames and put it in a brood chamber to have them build it out there and then move back up? Or do I just need to chill and give them time. I don't really know if there is any major flow on here or not. I am too new to pick up on the signs or patterns.(I am in North East New Jersey) I did a search and learned a few tricks to get them to draw it out, but I just don't know if there is an uncontrollable reason that they are not drawing it out.

    todd

  2. #2
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    Jul 2013
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    Louisville, KY
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    1,340

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    On the flow, right now, my hives draw out plastic no problem. I don't do anything special to it, usually when i put a new super on I like to put a drawn piece of comb. It not only gets them interesting in the new box but acts like a barometer to tell if they are ready for the new box. Most likely the hive is not ready for the expansion into the new space.

  3. #3
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    I hope it is something like that. It would be a relief on two fronts. I actually thought I was late putting it on because 8 of ten frames in the second super filled fast and I was afraid I would trigger a swarm if I waited any longer to put the super on. I am only at this for a year, and I know us newbees always think we are either queenless, or in danger of swarming lol. thank you for your take on this.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
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    1,247

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Put bees in a box and magic happens.... They put honey right in the jars.... seal and all.

    My guess is that your beekeeping experience is limited to a year or less with questions like this. There is a serious case of ignorance and impatience going on here.

    You might want to do a little research on why and how bees draw comb.

    Either you have a health issue with the hive or the flow is OFF.

    Put a 5 gallon bucket of syrup inverted over the top and see what happens to that foundation!!!!!!!! It will let you know right quick what the issue is.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,333

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    In a flow a good strong hive will draw out the foundation in a 10 frame deep box and fill it in a 4-5 days. So you need to simulate a flow with syrup.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    wantage new jersey
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    24

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    wow trottet1,
    seems like youve been attacket from the west coat..here's some neighbohood advice.
    im in wantage and been keeping bees for 6 years so still a newbee. But relax and its true, you need to feed. there is a flow in our area but slight....Feed your bees...and feed until they cry uncle, they will tell you when its enough by not taking more.
    but most of all relax...Bess will do only what the bees will do...But if you feed them, you will think they are doing what you want them and build comb for themselves..oops..ok you...hehehe..so feed and relax...

  7. #7
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    338

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    Put bees in a box and magic happens.... They put honey right in the jars.... seal and all.

    My guess is that your beekeeping experience is limited to a year or less with questions like this. There is a serious case of ignorance and impatience going on here.

    You might want to do a little research on why and how bees draw comb.

    Either you have a health issue with the hive or the flow is OFF.

    Put a 5 gallon bucket of syrup inverted over the top and see what happens to that foundation!!!!!!!! It will let you know right quick what the issue is.
    Ok, you gave good advice at the end of your response to my post. Thank you for that. However, in the future, If you see me post about anything at all, good question, or bad........ I request that you NOT respond to anything I post. I can get plenty of good, sound advice AND in a diplomatic manner from many other people. Seriously, please don't respond to any of my posts.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by gigis3 View Post
    wow trottet1,
    seems like youve been attacket from the west coat..here's some neighbohood advice.
    Thank you much for your patience in answering my query. These amazingly awesome old time, experienced beekeepers can sometimes get a little high on their horse. Maybe it is all they are good at in life and feel berating novice beekeepers makes them feel better about all of their other lacks of talent.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wilson NC
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Don't sweat people like that. There are plenty of us willing to help and also have questions of our own. Seems that ur bees may not need the added room right now. If u have a flow going on then they will draw it out to store what is coming in. Either your flow is low or they already have room that they are working. If u need drawn comb u can put feed on them but be sure to take what honey they have already put up so ur honey and feed don't get mixed. Also if u feed be sure to keep check on the brood box and not let them get honey bound.
    Good luck. Lots of people here always willing to help.

  10. #10
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    338

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by bassbee View Post
    Don't sweat people like that. There are plenty of us willing to help and also have questions of our own.
    Believe me. I know the vast majority of the folks here are the nicest of people. I still love this forum and really enjoy learning from it. Contrary to the implication above about me just stickin a bunch of bees in a box and the rest is magic. I had a very rough start at it last year and over came a few obstacles and had big problems with my new packages this year and over came with a 50/50 success rate. I attribute that to all the kind folks here that coached me along. The books all teach knowledge, but all of you willing to help out here, teach knowledge based on personal experiences. I can not express in words alone my gratitude.

    todd

  11. #11
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    Mar 2013
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    killen,al
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    179

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    feed them. If they take the sugar, then there isn't enough flow for them to build. If they take the feed, then feed them again.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    543

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Well I am a green newbie with no mentor, and this site acts as my mentor. So just ignore those that are rude, read everything you can, and experiment.

    When placing a new super on I always pull at least one filled frame up and slid a new frame down in its place. Or I have had better luck sliding 2 frames down and 2 filled out frame up into the new super. Leave one unfilled frame between the two filled frames you move up and presto, they get the idea. Or it has worked for me.

    Good Luck and have fun.
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 3 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    arvad, colorado, usa
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Do you have a queen excluder under your super? If so, you might want to have some drawn out comb in your super. Queen excluders can sometimes discourage bees from moving into the super if there's nothing but foundation in it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    2,817

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    In most cases where bees don't want to draw foundation in a super above an excluder, its because the bees have not reached the point of needing the extra room for storage, and more importantly, the population is not quite dense enough yet in the brood nest to justify occcupying another new box. When the population gets to the right threshold, they will go through the excluder with no problem, and begin drawing comb. Don't get impatient, the bees will build comb when they need it. I don't like feeding syrup to get honey super comb drawn out, if you leave the feeders on too long you may end up with sugar syrup being stored in the comb along with the honey.

  15. #15
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    no tabby, I opted against the queen excluder. At least until the frames are drawn out. I just put a hive top feeder on with a 1:1 mix in it. I'll check back in a few days and see if anything changed. Thank you for taking the time to read my question.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    In most cases where bees don't want to draw foundation in a super above an excluder, its because the bees have not reached the point of needing the extra room for storage, and more importantly, the population is not quite dense enough yet in the brood nest to justify occcupying another new box.
    thank you jmgi,
    I put some syrup on just as a trouble shooting measure. I assumed that since they drew out that second super to beyond 80% that they were ready. My lack of patience is stemming from my fear that they need the room. It seems to me, that with new guys such as myself, our biggest problem is our own anxiety lol. thanks for the input. If they don't take syrup and or draw frames, then I know its a space vs. population issue. thanks again.
    todd

  17. #17
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    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk, NY, USA
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    511

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    Put bees in a box and magic happens.... They put honey right in the jars.... seal and all.

    My guess is that your beekeeping experience is limited to a year or less with questions like this. There is a serious case of ignorance and impatience going on here.

    You might want to do a little research on why and how bees draw comb.

    Either you have a health issue with the hive or the flow is OFF.

    Put a 5 gallon bucket of syrup inverted over the top and see what happens to that foundation!!!!!!!! It will let you know right quick what the issue is.
    Did you even read the original post? If so, what problem do you have with it?
    Why bother to respond if your fruit of the looms got so twisted over it?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,247

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Quote Originally Posted by EastSideBuzz View Post
    In a flow a good strong hive will draw out the foundation in a 10 frame deep box and fill it in a 4-5 days. So you need to simulate a flow with syrup.
    Eastside!! Fish stories? Draw and fill a 10 frame deep in 4-5 days? How many hives have you had this happen on in all you years of beekeeping? What % of the times you have thrown suppers on have bees drawn and filled a deep in 5 days? My guess its less than 1%. That's 15-20 pounds a day! About a gallon or more a day. Flows like that are so rare a bee guy might see ones like that 2 times in a lifetime at best. Next time you think this is going to happen I would love to have you let me know. I would be glad to purchase satellite based reporting scale so everyone can see it happen. You pay me back for my investment if the flow is less than 50% of what you say you can do.

    For someone to toss on a super and expect the bees to get er done in that short of an order the beards out the door will need to be 3 gallons in volume and the flow a monster one at that.

    Would someone explain to me the theory of Spraying sugar water on the frames? What good will this do unless its a continuous supply?

    The question that trott needs to ask himself and get an adequate answer for is: " Under what conditions do the flowers produce nectar and when do the bees gather it?" If he or anyone operates in anticipation that the bees will operate outside of these "Laws of nature" then he can open the lid all he wants and be very disappointed.

  19. #19
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    Jul 2013
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    lake hopatcong nj
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    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    Thanks clyde, clearly my post wasn't read thoroughly. Because I asked exactly what he suggested I ask. Second time someone got snippy with me on this forum. The first time was over a possible gramatical error that I made. It is what it is. Some people are funny like that I guess. Still a great place to learn and talk bees.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Manassas, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    750

    Default Re: super is not getting drawn. Am I being impatient, or should I do something?

    We were advised to spray some 1:1 syrup with some HBH in it to get them to start drawing comb, particularly on plastic foundation. I can say without reservation that it gets a few bees checking out the foundation within a minute. I can also say it doesn't stop them from actually drawing comb on foundation that has been sprayed, but also does not guarantee that they'll get started on comb they don't think they're ready for.

    Something we tried last week and I'm eager to get back in and see if it makes a difference, is that we melted some of their burr and bridge comb from earlier inspections and painted a little across the tops of plastic foundation in the new honey supers. Hopefully they'll accept it faster if they think it smells like they already started on it. But again, I doubt they'll draw any comb they don't think they're ready for.

    I can't imagine a queen excluder is very much needed for a new super containing only foundation. She's not going to do any laying on foundation. Unless you're on an install-and-forget schedule, at least wait until they've got a good start drawing it out.

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