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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    984

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    When I got into GPS, the cheapest macro-component was fairly large and cost over $100. When I checked on a replacement several years ago, a single chip did the job, using 4 bands instead of 1. and cost $3 in onesies. I carry a Tracfone that costs $15 that contains GPS, a camera, etc. The only reason I don't use the $10 version is its bad tendency to butt-dial. I think the cost issue can be gotten under control.

    I envision a small device, maybe with a 9V battery, that sits quietly waiting to be asked for a response. Once pinged, it would need a minute or two to get a fix, then would send out a burst with its location, maybe via a cell phone account.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    792

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by GOHoney View Post
    It's not frowned upon in my yard.
    Mine either. I live in AL, we don't shoot everybody down here, but we do have the Castle Doctrine law in effect and I can protect what's mine.
    Purveyor of almost organic honey and treatment free bees.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Topeka, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    It is the perp's decision, not the victim, that determines whether a beehive (or anything else) is worth getting shot.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
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    475

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeonefarms View Post
    I didnt spend 8 years defending this nation to not be able to keep what is mine here in the good ole USA.. Very true no one should have to die over bees but if you are going to sneak in and rob on my property what else will you be willing to do break in and see if any honey profits havent been deposited yet...
    Nah - that doesn't work if you think about it for longer than a minute. The kind of person who will sneak into a remote location where nobody is around to steal some unsecured beehives that he knows are there is exactly not the kind of person who'll break into somebody's house and risk confronting a person in order to steal an undetermined amount of money that might not even be there. Beehive theft is pretty darn low-risk.

    What if those people you catch sneaking around your beeyard at night are actually just a couple of young kids with a can of Raid or spray paint? Still okay to kill them? Nahh, come on. Just start yelling and they'll scatter like rabbits. Adults? Same thing. I mean fine, go ahead wave your gun or shoot at the ground, or scream "OVER THE LINE!!!" and tell him that he's entering a world of pain or something. He'll run. Just get his plate and call the cops. And if you're personally attacked that's another story obviously. But otherwise, you don't want to actually kill someone over a beehive. I know I'd be feeling pretty low after that forever, no matter how "right" I tell myself it was.

    Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. If someone is commercial - I mean really commercial - I can maybe understand considering hives business property that needs to be protected; but beekeeping is my hobby. If someone's in my house and picks up and drops a model ship I've been working on for months, or knocks over and breaks my $2500-dollar telescope, I'm going to be pretty darn uncivil about it but I'm not going kill the bastard.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    2,026

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    If upon entering an outyard I were to catch someone stealing my hives, I would like to think that my actions would be what most characterize as acceptable, moderate and reasonable. (I'd just call the police). I do benifit and am grateful for those that would have what some think is unreasonable, unacceptable and extreme reaction. Thank you! Perhaps the fear of "crazy people with guns" keeps people honest. Don't know, don't care it is between you and the guy that touched your stuff.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
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    475

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebee View Post
    When I got into GPS, the cheapest macro-component was fairly large and cost over $100. When I checked on a replacement several years ago, a single chip did the job, using 4 bands instead of 1. and cost $3 in onesies. I carry a Tracfone that costs $15 that contains GPS, a camera, etc. The only reason I don't use the $10 version is its bad tendency to butt-dial. I think the cost issue can be gotten under control.

    I envision a small device, maybe with a 9V battery, that sits quietly waiting to be asked for a response. Once pinged, it would need a minute or two to get a fix, then would send out a burst with its location, maybe via a cell phone account.
    Nah, a little 9v battery isn't going to cut it - a device cannot be both "off" and listening for a query signal. It's going to have a constant draw, which means a cell-phone like device is probably your best bet, with the kind of lithium battery those things use that can last quite a bit of time between changes or recharges. A 9v you'll have to be changing out once every couple of days, whereas a cell phone that is only "active" for a minute or two twice a day will give you as much as a couple of weeks on a single charge - much more friendly to a typical remote bee-yard inspection schedule.

    Thing is, it'll have to be a specialty device. I'm imagining a unit you can call with a phone number, which when so alerted will take a GPS fix and send the data either as a text message or over the internet as an email (or both?). Even better - and saving significantly more power - would be a unit which is set up not to accept queries, but rather to take GPS fixes on a set schedule and only connect to a cell signal to send the text or email at the appropriate times. It'll still need to be constantly on, but not needing to maintain a signal connection constantly will use less battery. Making a spontaneous position report anytime excessive motion is detected would be a bonus - so that any location report you receive outside of schedule can be assumed to be a sign of a problem - thieves, vandals, damaging weather, or animal predation.

    The problem with either idea is the cell signal. That means SIM card, and that means a continuous cost of one kind or another. Any kind of service could theoretically work; but cell service companies being what they are, it's probably not going to be as simple as just getting a prepaid phone and putting its SIM card into this device for example. There might be only certain companies willing to accept registration of these devices, or they might classify it as a special kind of service, which they can charge more for. Even worse if the device maker itself makes themselves the exclusive cell service provider, because they'll have full reign to go through the roof.

    Then there's device placement. There's not a whole lot of room in a beehive; it seems to me the most logical place would be attached to the underside of the top cover - in a hive with a telescoping/inner cover set up. In a hive with a migratory cover, the only practical place might be underneath the bottom board. Either way cell reception should be fine; what I'm more worried about is GPS reception. Definitely tricky if attached under the bottom board. Underneath a telescoping cover might be tricky too - big aluminum cover. A wire antenna is the easy way out; but if the thief sees it, he'll rip it out and the GPS is useless.

    Long story short:

    Specialty device: $$$$$

    +

    Specialty cell service: $$$$$

    =

    Total: $$$$$$$$$$

    Doable, but it won't be as cheap as a disposable phone even though it uses the exact same cheap technology.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    lee county, fl, usa
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    870

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    It is a constant thing in the back of ones mind. Frustrating.
    Mine too. I have a couple hives on a property where someone asked me to set up hives, and during the week no one is there. Plus they are on a very busy county highway, and I worry about those hives and have told her of my concern. Leaving them for now but I know it could easily happen. You can't see them from the road but you can if you pull up to the house. My main yards are in gated property, thank goodness.
    Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Prvb 16:24
    March 2010; +/- 30 hives, TF

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tineo, Asturias, SPAIN
    Posts
    184

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    The take-away from this thread:

    a) A lot of people think that the penalty for stealing a beehive should be the same as for raping and killing a small child in Texas.

    b) Bee "problems" have nothing to do with varroa, AFB, pesticides, monoculture, massive migratory pollination, etc... all of the problems are due to beekeepers who wear Birkenstocks. I didn't know there were people who still wear Birkenstocks, but there must be, because CCD and all of the other winter loss problems? ....yup, it's their fault.

    Alrightly then.

  9. #29
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifford Township, PA
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    2,064

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestB View Post
    The take-away from this thread:

    a) A lot of people think that the penalty for stealing a beehive should be the same as for raping and killing a small child in Texas.

    b) Bee "problems" have nothing to do with varroa, AFB, pesticides, monoculture, massive migratory pollination, etc... all of the problems are due to beekeepers who wear Birkenstocks. I didn't know there were people who still wear Birkenstocks, but there must be, because CCD and all of the other winter loss problems? ....yup, it's their fault.
    Threads like this always bring out those whose answer to every problem involves killing. There's no way to tell blustering windbags from sociopaths so it's little use in discussing anything with them.

    There is no mention of the footwear worn by Gabino Jordan Pena, the suspect arrested for stealing Joe Romance's hives but I'd bet he wasn't shod in Birkenstocks. I lost any concern for Joe Romance's experience with that comment. He can lose them all again for all I care.

    Wayne
    Last edited by waynesgarden; 06-09-2014 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
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    475

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestB View Post
    b) Bee "problems" have nothing to do with varroa, AFB, pesticides, monoculture, massive migratory pollination, etc... all of the problems are due to beekeepers who wear Birkenstocks. I didn't know there were people who still wear Birkenstocks, but there must be, because CCD and all of the other winter loss problems? ....yup, it's their fault.

    Alrightly then.
    This could be just another younger-person-showing-his-age thing, I don't know, but...what are Birkenstocks?
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,304

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I googled them. They appear to be sandals. Most of my life was spent in cork boots. Know what those are?
    Not that footware is in any way related to bee theft, other than corks can put a world of hurt on a thief. And bees will do the same to anyone wearing sandals.Got it?

  12. #32
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    Mar 2014
    Location
    Carpentersville, Kane, IL, USA
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    34

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I found this quote quite interesting from the article.....honestly I have never owned anything Birkenstock.

    "At the same time, backyard beekeeping seems to be growing in popularity, anecdotal at least. The arrival of hobbyists isn’t something that many commercial beekeepers welcome. Some commercial beekeepers actually blame hobbyists for the loss of bees and say that colony collapse disorder is really a case of “piss-poor beekeeping.” Joe Romance, for example, refers to them as “the Birkenstock crowd.”"

  13. #33
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I wore them for several years as work shoes.

    http://www.happyfeet.com/Products/C1...LC15LTSG2.aspx

    I was totally unaware of the sub culture that wore them until I began to. I guess the stereotype is that hippie types are more apt to wear them. I noticed that a specific group of women most often wore them.

  14. #34
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
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    843

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    This has been an interesting thread. I too, didn't know what Birkenstock's were, even though I have owned them on a couple of occasions. Also, I didn't realize that we shot the criminals that raped and killed small children in Texas. It took someone living in Spain to notify me of this. And to think that I am a native born Texan.

    I'm a combat veteran, and I don't plan on killing anyone else in my life. If I do, it will be because I am convinced that one of my loved one's life is in danger. I'm in agreement with Mbeck, I don't intend to be a policeman.

  15. #35
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    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Still not sure who the 'Birkenstock crowd' referred to are. If they are the 'hippy' types, well all I can say is they are my best customers. I dont have to agree with their politics to take their money!

    As for shooting thieves. Well yes some no doubt deserve it, but in California you must be in fear for your life to shoot someone. That seems reasonable to me. Bees are my only livelihood, but I cannot see killing someone over them.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Hillsborough County, FL, USA
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    47

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by melliferal View Post

    Long story short:

    Specialty device: $$$$$

    +

    Specialty cell service: $$$$$

    =

    Total: $$$$$$$$$$

    Why invent a bicycle? Such unit already exists and it is pretty cheap. It sits there in a low power mode until it detects movement and then starts sending its position over satellite comms. The unit is $100 and a service plan $100 per year. Not $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and it is money well spend if you are trying to protect thousands of dollars of investment. It can be placed under a top cover or even on the bottom board, so you'll never find it unless you open every single hive, which thieves don't have time to do.

  17. #37
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    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I can't get the math to work on these tracking devices. Lets say a small commercial operator runs a thousand hives in 30 beeyards. $200 per year per yard to place a device in one pallet per yard.Thats $6000 per year.

    If the beekeeper has only experienced a few small thefts over 40 years, what are the odds a thief will take out a whole yard? Which yards to protect?Which pallets are going to be taken?

    Now in a big holding yard before almonds, when the thefts seem more common, a few of these placed on strategically placed pallets might make sense.

    I do like the idea of other people spending money for the devices , and hopefully taking these thieves out!

  18. #38
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    Mar 2014
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    Hillsborough County, FL, USA
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    47

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I would venture a guess that if you are running a thousand hives, $6000 a year is going to be a pocket change for you. Besides, $100 out of those $200 is one time expense.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Libertytown, MD, USA
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    136

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    Quote Originally Posted by melliferal View Post
    This could be just another younger-person-showing-his-age thing, I don't know, but...what are Birkenstocks?
    If you happen to run across a kinda smelly hippie-chick with hair in her armpits, especially if she is wearing tye-dye, a bandana, or dreadlocks, check her feet. She'll either be barefoot or wearing Birkenstocks. (Glad to be of service)

  20. #40
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,457

    Default Re: Fighting the Rise of Bee Rustlers

    I dont know if I will exactly agree that $6,000 is pocket change but its got me thinking about planting a few of those suckers in the next load I send out to Cali. Now to figure the best way to go about stashing them in a hive without having them getting coated in propolis. Hmmmm.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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