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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
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    104

    Default Looking for raw TF propolis

    After finding out that non temperate region propolis is useless, especially medicinally, I need some raw TF propolis from north of Georgia. A big glob. It can have legs, parts, etc in it. Doesn't matter. Please let me know if you can help me out and what it will cost me.
    South Florida, 9 hives, 2 nuc, no treatments, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk, NY, USA
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    551

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    What have you found out?
    is it possible to point me to the sources of this information?
    thanks, clyderoad

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Salem, IN, USA
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Quote Originally Posted by CessnaGirl View Post
    After finding out that non temperate region propolis is useless, especially medicinally, I need some raw TF propolis from north of Georgia. A big glob. It can have legs, parts, etc in it. Doesn't matter. Please let me know if you can help me out and what it will cost me.
    I'm not in your area but I have some. If interested PM me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
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    423

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    I tend to be rather skeptical of claims that one natural product or species is medicinal, while another nearly identical product or species (of the same genus!) is not.

    Yes, propolis will come from different plant origins, depending on the climates you live in. Poplar is the dominant source in temperate climates, I believe. It's therefore reasonable to assume that the properties of propolis gathered elsewhere, from different "ingredients" (sources), may differ from those of temperate-climate propolis. However, I do not deem it reasonable to assume that it is "useless". Bees collect propolis for a reason, and that isn't to mend our ills. If that propolis was useless, then they simply wouldn't collect it. Why bother? A bee collecting propolis is a bee not collecting nectar or pollen. Natural and artificial selection would both have driven bees from non-temperate climates to stop collecting propolis if it had no value.
    www.apisrustica.com (French-only website) Bee Breeding: Canadian nuclei & queens / northern hygienic bees

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Dominic:
    I tend to be rather skeptical of claims by those who are rather skeptical of other peoples comments without letting them explain or cite their sources of information.

    for the heck of it, do you care to back up your claims?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Pm me I have 8oz bags. If north west ohio will work for you.
    David

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
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    423

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    Dominic:
    I tend to be rather skeptical of claims by those who are rather skeptical of other peoples comments without letting them explain or cite their sources of information.

    for the heck of it, do you care to back up your claims?
    Care to name which "claim" of mine you want me to "back up"?
    www.apisrustica.com (French-only website) Bee Breeding: Canadian nuclei & queens / northern hygienic bees

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk, NY, USA
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    551

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    these:

    Poplar is the dominant source in temperate climates, I believe. It's therefore reasonable to assume that the properties of propolis gathered elsewhere, from different "ingredients" (sources), may differ from those of temperate-climate propolis. However, I do not deem it reasonable to assume that it is "useless". Bees collect propolis for a reason, and that isn't to mend our ills. If that propolis was useless, then they simply wouldn't collect it. Why bother? A bee collecting propolis is a bee not collecting nectar or pollen. Natural and artificial selection would both have driven bees from non-temperate climates to stop collecting propolis if it had no value.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
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    104

    Cool Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    I firstI heard it at our beek meeting from a couple of members. I really didn't believe it. Then I heard there was a scientific group that had come through the area (don't know names) taking propolis samples from any and every hive they could find all over the US (and possibly the world). They analyzed them and found temperate propolis medicinally most effective. All this info was hearsay without real names until we had a lecture by Dr. Vetaley Stashenko that confirmed this info. I cannot remember the names of the actual researchers. They said specifically Florida propolis had all kinds of strange, useless things in it, like road tar. I have not read the study. This is all I know about it other than I did ask Dr. Stashenko where to get propolis and he said he gets it "north of Georgia."
    South Florida, 9 hives, 2 nuc, no treatments, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk, NY, USA
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    551

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Thank you I'll start looking for the study.

  11. #11
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    Jul 2013
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    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
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    423

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    these:

    Poplar is the dominant source in temperate climates, I believe. It's therefore reasonable to assume that the properties of propolis gathered elsewhere, from different "ingredients" (sources), may differ from those of temperate-climate propolis. However, I do not deem it reasonable to assume that it is "useless". Bees collect propolis for a reason, and that isn't to mend our ills. If that propolis was useless, then they simply wouldn't collect it. Why bother? A bee collecting propolis is a bee not collecting nectar or pollen. Natural and artificial selection would both have driven bees from non-temperate climates to stop collecting propolis if it had no value.
    That's basically my whole message. Propolis is transported on the bee's pollen baskets: do you need me to cite a study stating that the pollen basket cannot be used simultaneously to transport propolis and pollen? Much of that passage also includes a series of deductions. Should I cite Darwin in order to be able to suggest that natural evolution will tend to favor behaviors that increase fitness over behaviors that reduce it?

    If it's that propolis gathered from different climates have different compositions, then that's from an article titled "Chemical characteristics of poplar type propolis of different geographic origin" (http://www.apidologie.org/articles/a...9/m6089.html):
    The use of propolis in folk medicine contin-
    ues to increase (Castaldo and Capasso, 2002)
    as a constituent of “bio-cosmetics”, “health
    foods” and for numerous other purposes
    (Wollenweber and Buchmann, 1997; Banskota
    et al., 2001). However, chemical studies have
    revealed chemical variability among propolis
    samples and the existence of different chemi-
    cal types of propolis according to plant source
    (Bankova, 2005b). In temperate zones all over
    the world, poplarbud exudates(mainly of
    Pop-ulus nigra L.) have been shown to be the
    main source of bee collected resin. Undoubt-
    edly, poplar type propolis is the most stud-
    ied and the best known type of propolis, both
    from chemical and pharmacological point of
    view. The chemical constituents responsible
    for its beneficial biological activities, and es-
    pecially for its antimicrobial and antioxidant
    properties, are well documented: flavonoids
    (including flavones, flavonols, flavanones and
    dihydroflavonols) and other phenolics (mainly
    substituted cinnamic acids and their esters)
    (Banskota et al., 2001).
    And in the conclusion:

    The results obtained in this study show that the
    chosen parameters are meaningful for the evalua-
    tion of poplar propolis quality. It is important to re-
    member however, that other types of propolis have
    different chemical compositions (Bankova, 2005a).
    For this reason, all the above discussed conclusions
    and criteria are valid for poplar propolis only, and
    should by no means be applied to other propolis
    types, such as Brazilian green propolis or Cuban
    and Brazilian red propolis.
    This article refers to other articles where you can read more about the brazilian green propolis and the red propolis. I do not have access to those right now, however.

    As for the uses of propolis for the bees, it's described in a number of articles, notable "Increased brood viability and longer lifespan of honeybees selected for propolis production", where the title explains pretty clearly what the results of their experiment was.

    Also, I'd point out that the article I cited also stated differences between different samples of the same climates. Indeed, it seems to say that mountain/non-mountain played a bigger role in poplar propolis divergences than climate of origin did. All the literature I come across also describes the propolis types in the way this article did. They don't say "temperate climate propolis". Indeed, "some significant differences (P < 0.05) were found but they did not follow any distinct geographic pattern", they go on to say as they compared samples from different countries.

    Therefore, to go on and claim that "temperate-climate" propolis is the only good propolis sounds dubious to me, much as "north of Georgia" as a criteria of selection for what is suddenly not "useless" anymore. What articles did Dr. Vetaley Stashenko cite to support his claims? Did he also suggest that people in temperate climates don't use tar for their roads, too? What's he a doctor of, anyways? Almost all of the pages I find about him are invalid urls. No publication in credible reviews as far as I can tell. However, his name also kicks up the article "Brazilian Propolis: A Promising Adjunct to Dental Care, Cancer Treatment, Vaccines", which's text I can't find, but which also goes to disprove that only "temperate propolis" is medicinally useful.

    Maybe some companies will only buy a very specific kind of poplar propolis from temperate regions. Maybe, for their own ends, it will be superior (or so they think). That doesn't make other kinds of propolis "useless".
    Last edited by Dominic; 06-06-2014 at 04:43 AM. Reason: clarification
    www.apisrustica.com (French-only website) Bee Breeding: Canadian nuclei & queens / northern hygienic bees

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    671

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    We are TF and i have half a 44 oz cup with unprocessed propolis in it, it smells like heaven. It's maybe 1-2 lbs... The sticks and rocks in would be free of charge of course
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
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    1,106

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    What is say a lb worth. I have some but never looked into selling it.
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 15 years; TF for 10; Zone 7B

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    671

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    I wholesale mine, grade 'A' gets about $9 a pound, grade (lowest) gets $4 I think was the quote to me. If you add up the price that they sell it for on the net it comes to about $100/lb but those people are selling it to the general public and that's some liability I don't necessarily want.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
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    1,106

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Quote Originally Posted by rwurster View Post
    I wholesale mine, grade 'A' gets about $9 a pound, grade (lowest) gets $4 I think was the quote to me. If you add up the price that they sell it for on the net it comes to about $100/lb but those people are selling it to the general public and that's some liability I don't necessarily want.
    Wow!!!! A markup from $9 to $100 is a great profit for someone.
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 15 years; TF for 10; Zone 7B

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Castle Rock, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    269

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/i...y&recordID=501

    http://www.valuefood.info/food/anima...s-or-bee-glue/

    "Earliest scientific studies on antibacterial property of Propolis are dated 1940. Propolis was found to have strong acitivity against Streptococcus, typhoid causing bacteria and other microbes. A study published in American Bee Journal reveals that Propolis was effective over 25 bacteria out of 39 tested in vitro.

    Honey bee Propolis is also anti fungal and anti viral in nature. It finds use in treatment of various infections like urinary tract, bronchitis, gastritis, intestinal infections, skin disease, lung diseases, liver infections, conjunctivitis and others."
    After 35 years, I've come to realize that the bees can fix most of my mistakes.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
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    104

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Here is Dr. Vetaley Stashenko video of his talk he gave our bee club - they just posted it. He is also a speaker at the Florida State Beekeeper's meeting in October 2014 in West Palm Beach. BTW, I asked him about the Brazilian propolis being good, thinking it was not temperate. He said it was temperate as it came from altitude, not from the rain forrest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvk9av6ocvY#t=12
    South Florida, 9 hives, 2 nuc, no treatments, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
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    615

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    since you are specific on propolis from top frame hives only you should also insist on free range bees only.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    Top frames? Ah, what? TF is treatment free. Somebody needs to take a dose of TF honey......
    South Florida, 9 hives, 2 nuc, no treatments, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
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    615

    Default Re: Looking for raw TF propolis

    I see, treatment free, well then, insist that the propolis comes only from certified organic trees and is collected only by free range bees.

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