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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    > If you split a hive with 30,000 bees at the right time and you use some logic to your splitting your odds are pretty good. The failures are more to do with getting the virgin queen mated and back safe.

    So ensuring there are eggs/young larva in each split does nothing to increase the odds of that split successfully raising a queen compared to a 'willy nilly' split of not even looking at the brood frames? Really?

    If the split bees have no eggs to raise a queen there is no point worrying about mating success rates!
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Odds are infinitely better if you have eggs in both halves.
    Last edited by cg3; 06-10-2014 at 12:02 PM.
    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. -Frank Zappa

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Depends on the numbers ...
    If you were to play Russian Roulette with 7 people using a six shooter and you were the first to pull the trigger the numbers are good for you.
    It doesn't matter if you are the first person out of a group of 7 people to play Russian Roulette, or the 7th person. Each 'player' spins the barrel as part of their turn, so the odds of the bullet firing are exactly the same each time.

    The 'numbers' in Russian Roulette are never 'good for you' unless you are a fool!





    If you are splitting bees, there is no hard and fast way to calculate the likelihood of success, but certainly the beekeeper can improve the odds by examining brood frames and making appropriate decisions.
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Which are the same for any split making their own queen no matter how you do it.
    Not if you do it intelligently, w/ forethought, knowledge, intent, and good observation. Your chances would markedly increased.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    It doesn't matter if you are the first person out of a group of 7 people to play Russian Roulette, or the 7th person. Each 'player' spins the barrel as part of their turn, so the odds of the bullet firing are exactly the same each time.

    The 'numbers' in Russian Roulette are never 'good for you' unless you are a fool!





    If you are splitting bees, there is no hard and fast way to calculate the likelihood of success, but certainly the beekeeper can improve the odds by examining brood frames and making appropriate decisions.
    Sorry, Brian. But what went through my mind when I read what you wrote about Russian Roulette was that maybe you knew as much about Russian Roulette as you do about making a successful split. But, then I thought to myself, "That wouldn't be a nice thing to say out loud."

    (is Russian Roulette a culturally insensitive term? hmmm.)
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Well I never played the game and it would make a difference if the gun was pointed at someone else. Be that as it may if it was the traditional game of pointing it at oneself and there were six people in front of you, you stand a better chance of survival being the seventh than the first.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Do you understand probability, Brian? Your chances are not good at all starting off w/ the fact that you are playing ​RUSSIAN ROULETTE!!
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    He's referring to the 'willy nilly' version of Russian Roulette!


    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by cg3 View Post
    Well, kids. What have we learned today?
    In seas of life some people are the hulks stuck fast on the reefs. These moldering hulks are there to warn you of where obstacles to be avoided are, nothing more.

    Sometimes though there's a self important little captain still occupying said hulk. Ironically, as you sail by he'll give you "advice" on how to correctly captain your ship, with no regard of his own visibly obvious ignorance. If he asks for advice, he doesn't really want it and won't learn from it. Say nothing but wave politely as you sail on by.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Do you understand probability, Brian? Your chances are not good at all starting off w/ the fact that you are playing ​RUSSIAN ROULETTE!!
    I don't play russian roulette. I don't see anything about keeping bees that has any correlation what so ever to russian roulette. That was someone else's idea.

    Do you understand probability,
    I sure do. What is the probability that a colony will multiply all on its own with out any beekeeper help?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    In seas of life some people are the hulks stuck fast on the reefs. These moldering hulks are there to warn you of where obstacles to be avoided are, nothing more.

    Sometimes though there's a self important little captain still occupying said hulk. Ironically, as you sail by he'll give you "advice" on how to correctly captain your ship, with no regard of his own visibly obvious ignorance. If he asks for advice, he doesn't really want it and won't learn from it. Say nothing but wave politely as you sail on by.


    How many of the rest of you think that Brian is having fun w/ us? Doing what he does here and laughing at us responding.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #72
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    lafargeville ny usa
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    probably yes, but it is hard to tell for sure.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    you stand a better chance of survival being the seventh than the first.
    If he's not trolling us, I want to play poker with him.
    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. -Frank Zappa

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't play russian roulette.
    I don't play football, baseball, or basketball but I know how. I bet you basically know how roulette works too.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #75
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    Prairieville, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    The dead side was full of worms, not sure if they are wax moth or hive beetle. They are small so I am thinking wax moth.
    I'm a third year newbie so i will not pretend to know much, but I thought the difference between SHB larva and wax moth larva was pretty evident. SHB larva look like maggots and wax moth larva are larger with a redish brown head. Am I wrong?

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    There are similarities ...
    May be Confused with the Following SHB Look-a-Likes


    • Wax Moth Larva (top) and SHB Larva
      Note the additional legs on the wax moth and the spines on SHB. Although there is some size overlap between both species, the Wax Moth larva will grow twice as long (2 cm) as SHB.

      • Photo: Wax Moth Larva (top) and SHB Larva (Photo by Bart Smith)


    There's more at the link ...

    http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...rtfindings.htm
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Extra legs? They both have six. That's what insects have, six legs. Then, one becomes a beetle and the other a moth.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    The larvae was about 1/4 in long and too small to see legs.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Extra legs? They both have six. That's what insects have, six legs.
    I don't pretend to be an expert here, but I believe there may be a 'leg count' distinction between adult insects and their larva. At least some insect larva have more than six legs, but the extra legs are on the abdomen instead of the thorax.



    Graphic linked from this University of Kentucky page, which also has more info: http://www2.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef017.asp
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  20. #80
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    Turnbow Hollow, Tennessee
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    Default Re: Walk away did not go well

    Wow! What a long and winding thread.

    Anyhow......to get back on topic. Here is a possibility that has not been considered and something "outside the box".

    A few years ago, a VERY well known and experienced beekeeper came to my apiary to show me how to do splits. He inspected all of the hives and they were found to be in very good health and very vigorous.

    We split 10 hives. Each parent hive remained in the original location but all of the splits were moved about 100 yards away. Within 5 days ALL of the splits were dead but all of the parent hives were doing well. We could not figure out what happened at first. I spoke with Dann Purvis who at the time was located close to me in TN and he pointed out the substantial possibility that since we moved all of the splits, they reoriented and likely found something that was toxic to them and it killed them whereas the parent hives that remained in place continued to forage in places they were familiar with.

    Short of sending bee samples off to Beltville, MD there was not way to be certain but this is what I think happened. As a result, any hive I split; the split hive remains next to the parent hive. Since doing this, I have not lost any hives in this fashion. I prefer to move hives during the Winter during cold snaps when the bees have been cooped up in the hive for at least 10 days. They are not capable of remembering their area orientation for that long and reorient upon leaving the hive for a purging flight when the weather has warmed up. Granted this may not be practical in very warm climates but when I move hives in this fashion very few bees return to the old location.

    I hope this adds something to think about to the conversation.

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