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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Bay City, MI
    Posts
    26

    Default The split did not except the queen

    HELP.I had a queen laying in two deeps,& she was laying in 8 frames on both sides. So i decided to do a split.I caged the queen temporally and removed one deep with 4 frames of eggs and 6 pollen, nectar and honey two miles away.the next day i added a new queen cage with honey on it by instruction. Mon night i went and got the deep and brought it home, its been two weeks and there are 9 supersede sells and one queen sell on the bottom.Now what do i do,and how do i get a queen out of this. thanks kaeckman

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    2,493

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    I'm confused. The hive/split that you moved, you put in a new, caged queen? If so, was she still in her cage when you brought the split back? I'm guessing not and she was released and killed as they are now raising cells there.

    (I'm also guessing here that the old queen that you temporarily caged, you released her into the old, original hive and all is fine there.)

    At any rate, on the new split you brought back, do nothing. You have a queen cell and they will raise a new queen.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox Mite Killing
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Big Stone Gap, VA
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    At any rate, on the new split you brought back, do nothing. You have a queen cell and they will raise a new queen.
    I agree with snl. The only thing I might do different is to consider cutting out a cell or two for a friend or another split.

    Shane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,149

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    It happens. Some queens are just not much good - they might look just fine, but they never start laying, or don't lay much, or the hive just fails to thrive. Lots of reasons why I guess. I have 2 like that right now, and their days are numbered. Both were produced under unconventional circumstances.

    If the cells look good then they might make a good replacement queen although I might consider giving them a frame of brood and/or a cell from a queen of known quality if possible.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,319

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    The book says that the bees will not accept a new queen unless they have bee queenless for 24 hours, therefore the recommendation is to wait 24 hours before adding the new queen in her cage. The problem is that when the beekeeper waits 24 hours the bees start queen cells and they do not accept the caged queen. If the candy has been exposed they will chew into the cage and kill the new queen. It is best to add the new queen in her cage to the division at the time the split is made. I go through the yard making divisions and when I am finished I go to the first made and add the queens. Usually the divisions have been queenless for an hour or less, but that is plenty of time for the division to know there is no queen with them. I keep the cork in the candy hole until I return to check in 24 hours. If the bees show no aggression to the new queen I remove the cork and let the bees chew into the queen, or I do a direct release at that time. If the bees show aggression to the new queen I check the division for a queen or the start of queen cells. If any are found I remove them and return in 24 hours for another check. The only queens I have lost have been because I became careless and unintentionally added a queen to the division and the new queen has been killed in the cage.
    37 years - 25 colonies - IPM disciple - naturally skeptic

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,287

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    Quote Originally Posted by tsmullins View Post
    I agree with snl. The only thing I might do different is to consider cutting out a cell or two for a friend or another split.

    Shane
    The one thing I would do differently is not cage the colony's queen. I didn't understand why that was done. And unless there was something else I missed, it seemed like you took bees away and brought them back a few days later rather than a week or more.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    London, United Kingdom
    Posts
    204

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    Next time just split the hive in half. Equally deal the frames of brood and stores between two hives.
    The one with the queen will carry on as usual, the one without will raise a new queen.
    If you know which one is which leave the one without the queen in the old spot to collect the foragers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    1,086

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    For now, go with the supercedure cells. Next time, don't cage the old queen. They know she's Momma, she won't be rejected. If you cage her, she stops laying, her pheromone production and other queen substance productions goes way down, causing her to get rejected.

    You'll very likely get much better results than splitting by raising queens in a Cell Starter/Finisher colony and planting queen cells into queenless nucs, or re-queening with mated queens introduced in Laidlaw cages.

    Splits have to go through a whole queen rearing cycle, taking them out of production for a month while the new queen gets going and laying a solid brood pattern before things get going good again. This hurts the population considerably. On a dry year, they can miss a big part of the only nectar flow in the Spring, leaving the split colony without enough stores for winter, and having hurt the mother colony that the old queen stayed in, too. There's a great book by Dr. Lawrence J. Connor titled, Increase Essentials that really explains this thoroughly.

    A mated queen introduced in a Laidlaw cage is accepted soon after she starts laying eggs. Release her when they have stopped attacking at her cage and are trying to feed her. Presto! They're back in action making honey, wax, bees, etc., usually in less than a week. You may even get 2 "splits" this way on a good year. The Laidlaw cage is described and photographed in Dr. Harry H. Laidlaw's book, Contemporary Queen Rearing, or you can use the search box here on Beesource where I've posted it before several times.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    collbran, co
    Posts
    563

    Default Re: The split did not except the queen

    if you had a new queen as well as the old queen i would not have caged her.you could have took two frames of honey with bees and no brood placed in a nuc and added the new caged queen and place in a new location.

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