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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,563

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    Here is another swarm hive with dark, long queen I need help identifying.
    Definitely one of mine, send her back

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    Which type is this?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    Which kind is this?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,060

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    Yes, their color will definitely darken at the 2nd year.
    Other than the darker/brown thorax, does anybody noticed the darker spot at the end?
    Isn't this typical of an Italian queen bee and not a straight Cordovan queen? I mean how else
    do we tell the difference if both Cordovan and the Italian got this black spot at the end. They can
    both have variation in color too.
    Without this spot at the end they are all Cordovan and with the spot they all are Italian. Don't you ALL agree?
    If not please explain on this....
    And if we do not OR cannot I.D. the queen bee by her color then without a genetic test it is hard to say what mutt we have.
    But for the sake of identification we still have to say what she is. She is not a carni queen mutt alright. She could bee but I cannot use her
    color for this purpose, according to the poster. So what do I use then? Please explain too if we cannot use the color to id queen bees....
    I luv bee source!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,044

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    My cordovan mother queen is unknown in age, picked up her in a rather nice swarm last year fairly early in the season and she overwintered and has built up great. She still looks the same, all brown, no black, her daughter has a bit of a black tip on the abdomen though but for being a single frame split was happy to get another 'cordovan' looking queen.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,060

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    I have not seen a Cordovan with a dark/brown spot at the end.
    Here is my Italian with a lighter body color and the dark spot that I just marked her.
    I have lighter queens but they are not Cordovan just because of this spot at their end.
    How many percent is cordovan or italian? I don't know because I still think they are all 'mutts.'
    I think the cordovan will not change her color much but the italians will at her 2nd year.



    Just marked Italian queen bee: The color is green not blue from the flash.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I luv bee source!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cattaraugus,New York, USA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    Just because they have a black spot on them doesnt make them Italian. Thats like saying that every white truck is a Ford.

    I do agree that just about every queen is a mix of some kind, with varying percentages of races in their genetic makeup.
    Allegany Mtn. Bee Farm
    Quality Queens and Honey from Western New York

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    cass, MO, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    DSC00205.jpg

    DSC00206.jpg

    here are a couple better pix of the queen

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    In my reality, all Apis mellifera in the U. S. A. are so completely mutticized, that the only thing I can be certain of, genetically, by visual cues, is a bee that is homozygous for the cordovan trait. I have no illusions that a bee, titled "Cordovan Italian" has any actual, measurable degree of Apis mellifera ligustica blood, than blood of any or all other subspecies, the Italian moniker, in this instance, just alludes to the lighter shade of color that any particular Cordovan honey bee exhibits. Bees of darker coloration, also homozygous for the cordovan trait, do not show themselves to be so lightly golden in color. I use the cordovan color trait as a marker, to help identify infiltration of AHB in my apiaries/colonies, though it is hypothetically possible for AHBs to also acquire this trait - what a horrible thought.

    Apparently the distinction that the cordovan trait imparts to individual honey bees that are homozygous for the gene, is to virtually eliminate all, black pigment from their exoskeletons. Individual bees, as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, can still be prone to blemishes, or freckles (in this instance, the tip segment of the abdomen being darker than the others - it still isn't black). I've even had one Cordovan Italian queen with two, black spots on a segment of her abdomen (freckles/moles/beauty marks).
    ------------------

    I apologize for not getting the pics that I spoke of. Our temps have been pretty rough, recently (over 100F), so I haven't been working the hives as much as I usually do. I will get those pics as soon as I can.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    mineral county,Montana USA
    Posts
    826

    Default Re: type of queen is this

    i find it interesting that none of the attending workers in the photos posted have the cordovan coloring.

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