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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Opinions needed. The attached pic shows one of my frames, ( the others are similar in appearance ). Should I re-queen?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Lincoln, RI
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    171

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Are the cells full of pollen/honey preventing her from laying eggs in the open cells? It could be just a matter of timing where food/pollen was stored as the frame was being drawn and the egg patter got offset. For new hives, I would think this is normal.

    Personally, if you are seeing consistent and aggressive egg laying in open cells, and the bees are progressing well otherwise - why mess with it?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dickson TN
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    452

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Not normal for a new hive. Pattern is very spotty. I would put the queen in a nuc, she might straighten out but doubtful. I'd consider ordering a new queen or talk to your supplier. New queen should not be that spotty a lot of drone brood would be fairly normal.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    I ordered a new one last week in anticipation. She should be here today or tomorrow. I'll double check the frames for pollen and nectar/water before I re-queen.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    I'll check them out again to confirm they ate empty. Thanks

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,132

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Can't see in the pic, but is it worker brood or drone brood?

    You have an interesting way to hold a comb by the way, you do yoga or something?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Hauppauge, New York
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    LOL. I was just turning it so my son could get a picture. I am taking pictures of both sides of all frames in this hive to analyze in photoshop on superzoom. The brood are mostly worker.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,143

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Is she laying solid eggs and they are hygienic? I do not care if it is pretty if it works.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Yes and yes. Below is a frame from another hive that I am comparing it to. Big difference.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    4,149

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Look at open brood - is it laid solid? If so then something else is going on.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Yes the open brood are laid solid.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Lincoln, RI
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Honestly, I cannot see the rationale for disrupting things. You have brood, and loads of it by the looks - this is a good thing. Requeening will add cost, time in laying, stress, and the possibility that she may not be accepted or have issues her own.

    Outside there being other issues under the surface, does that outweigh a brood pattern's aesthetics? I do not think so.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zbee View Post
    Honestly, I cannot see the rationale for disrupting things. You have brood, and loads of it by the looks - this is a good thing. Requeening will add cost, time in laying, stress, and the possibility that she may not be accepted or have issues her own.

    Outside there being other issues under the surface, does that outweigh a brood pattern's aesthetics? I do not think so.
    I hear you. It's tough though. If it is the Queen and I wait another two-three weeks, I am way behind. If its not the Queen, assuming ( I hate to assume ) the new Queen is a perfect fit, then I am only behind 3-4 days. I think I will wait one more week and see how everything shakes out before I pull the trigger.

    Thanks for the reality check.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    The only way she will lay a good pattern after a poor one is on a blank slate. Empty comb or a new foundation in the brood nest if they are drawing comb quickly.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ncbees View Post
    Yes the open brood are laid solid.
    Then she is laying a good pattern. You could be seeing open cells in the capped brood pattern because of hygenic behavior, a minor bit of disease, odd honey or pollen cells - any number of things. You are probably worrying about it too much. If you want to order a queen by all means do - but you might just use her to make a split.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    Your right David, I should have said pretty pattern, not good pattern, different things.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    I knew what you meant - and you're right.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Hauppauge, New York
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    43

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    I think I am overthinking it. I will let the bees do what they do and check back in a week
    thanks for all the advice.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,132

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    If you do not requeen, keep an eye on it.

    There are many causes for a pattern like this, if the queen used to be good, one cause can be she is running low on stored semen & starting to lay some drone eggs, and the bees remove them but leave the workers. Some bees do not remove the drones, but some do. If that is what is going on the queen will soon fail completely. Other causes can be a brood disease of some type such as EFB or varroa & the bees are cleaning them out, again, some bees will clean them & some will not, or not very well.

    If the queen is inbred & mated with related drones the pattern can be like that, the bees remove the eggs that have the same alleles.

    Or, it could just be a poor queen who will always lay like that, in which case the hive will fail to thrive because of the waste space in the brood nest. It can also be a good queen but there has been some issue with the combs causing her to lay patchy, and after it is cleared up her pattern will return to normal. But you have new looking combs so that is less likely.

    If it was my hive and I was not able to analyse the cause, I would either requeen, or give it say, a month, and if no improvement requeen. These queens do occasionally go back to normal but more commonly, they don't.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,749

    Default Re: Brood pattern, New Queen?

    I don't think anything is wrong with her, it looks to me like she has went back and refilled the empty holes with eggs. Its hard to tell for sure but, it looks like there is larva all around that capped brood.

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