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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >Rat LD50's (Smaller numbers are more toxic):
    Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) 200 mg/kg
    Caffeine 192 mg/kg
    Table Salt 3,000 mg/kg
    Acetic Acid - Vinegar 3310 mg/kg
    Glyphosate - Roundup >5000 mg/kg

    LD50 for Lead (Pb) for Rats is 560 mg so obviously it's much safer than Caffeine... you could put it in you coffee everyday with no ill effects right?
    But nobody is putting these substances in their coffee (hopefully), so that really isn't a good way to look at it.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  2. #82
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    Feb 2007
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    Lk Stevens, WA
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    166

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    The plant that the county sprayed was knotweed which I saw my bees working last night. Does the herbiside get into the nectar? If so, what does that effect if anything when its fed to the larva? Anyone know of reserch on that?

  3. #83
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    Jan 2013
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    Larimer County, CO
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    501

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post
    From an above post:
    "i tend to hold large agribusiness corporations guilty until proven innocent when it pertains to the safety of a particular chemical." Is this a telling statement.

    From another post: "I have observed that several people I know who have severe wheat gluten intolerance issues remarkably are able to eat wheat products that do not contain GMO wheat without problems." I can understand this happening, as I also have many friends and when we visit the conversations always drift to, "well how are your gluten issues since you started eating wheat products that did not originate from GMOs?" NOT

    When I read such as the above, I just close my mind to this biased person's reply.
    and you obviously have no bias in your line of thinking either, right?
    I'm the dude, so that's what you call me.

  4. #84
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    >But nobody is putting these substances in their coffee (hopefully), so that really isn't a good way to look at it.

    But you are getting exposed to all of those, including lead, on a daily basis. Even if you don't TAKE aspirin it's in the water because of people who DO take aspirin, and salt, caffeine, and acetic acid are on your food and Glyphosate is also in the water. I think it's the only realistic way to look at it... what matters isn't how much it takes for a single dose to kill you, what matters is what it does in small doses over the long run.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >But nobody is putting these substances in their coffee (hopefully), so that really isn't a good way to look at it.

    But you are getting exposed to all of those, including lead, on a daily basis. Even if you don't TAKE aspirin it's in the water because of people who DO take aspirin, and salt, caffeine, and acetic acid are on your food and Glyphosate is also in the water. I think it's the only realistic way to look at it... what matters isn't how much it takes for a single dose to kill you, what matters is what it does in small doses over the long run.
    I guess what I was saying is that the hypothetical "what would you rather put in your coffee" question isn't a good way to assess toxicity.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    >I guess what I was saying is that the hypothetical "what would you rather put in your coffee" question isn't a good way to assess toxicity.

    Of course. It's not a question of what sounds appetizing, but what the long term effects of exposure are. But the long term effects of caffeine and lead are pretty well know. People have been exposed to them for centuries now... The long term effects of Glyphosate are not known.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #87
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    May 2014
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    Sedgwick Co. KS
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >I guess what I was saying is that the hypothetical "what would you rather put in your coffee" question isn't a good way to assess toxicity.

    Of course. It's not a question of what sounds appetizing, but what the long term effects of exposure are. But the long term effects of caffeine and lead are pretty well know. People have been exposed to them for centuries now... The long term effects of Glyphosate are not known.
    We don't know the long term effects of lots of things. We may well find out in the future that drinking bottled water is bad for us......who knows? It's a well known fact that none of us are getting out of life alive. No one I have ever known has ever died of good health. Anything & everything that we put into our bodies can kill us if it's done to excess. The solution is to do what you think is best for you & yours, and don't force opinions & lifestyle onto anyone else. Everyone will die by of their own decision.

    All these new & recent lineup of pesticides are advances from what was used in the past. Perhaps the next generation of chemicals or whatever will be better yet. Choose your path through life as best you can.

  8. #88
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    Dec 2010
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    Coatesville, Pa, USA
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    839

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post
    When I read such as the above, I just close my mind to this biased person's reply.
    This is sad in my mind. (I'm not trying to fight, but I'm being serious) Everyone of us has a bias of some sort. What we need to do is look at facts and seek to discifer them for ourself. Consider that one person has a bias for a reason. I wonder why or what caused them to be that way? If we can see these kind of things I think it would help us all.

  9. #89
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    Jan 2006
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    Lee\'s Summit, MO
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    People have been exposed to them for centuries now... The long term effects of Glyphosate are not known.
    +/-40 years of real world use isn't long term? A company is going to have to test a new product for decades or even centuries before people are going to be comfortable enough to accept a new product? The long gestation period of products would absolutely stifle new product investment, economic growth or improvement of the human condition. Who gets (or gives up) this type of stranglehold power?

    Ironically that's the type of thinking that people used initially to reject electricity at the turn of the 19th century. Imagine when the Polio vaccine might have been released if that type of testing was required. Ebola? We're willing to give it a 30-50 year head start as we continue testing all possibilities? Cell phones? Uh, we'd still be using dial up... It would absolutely destroy our economy as others would rocket past.

    Is new always good? Nope. But once a product has passed the tests it's been required to and undergone the required regulatory oversight the barn doors are open for business.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Exactly. Glyphosate has been in use for 40 years. From Wiki: In 2007 glyphosate was the most used herbicide in the United States agricultural sector, with 180 to 185 million pounds applied, and the second most used in home and garden market where users applied 5 to 8 million pounds; additionally industry, commerce and government applied 13 to 15 million pounds.

    That’s about 100,000 tons per year in ’07 alone. With a little extrapolation I can estimate that total use in the US exceeds TWO MILLION TONS since the ‘70’s. And what has been the results of all this data? Opinionated links to CCD?

    Real world data beats anything that a lab could provide. How could additional laboratory testing possibly add anything to this?
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  11. #91
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    >We may well find out in the future that drinking bottled water is bad for us......who knows?

    I'm pretty sure it is bad for us and I'm pretty sure we already know that from the things that crystal clear plastics add to our diet... biphenols...


    >People have been exposed to them for centuries now... The long term effects of Glyphosate are not known.
    +/-40 years of real world use isn't long term?

    It may have been around since 1970, but it has only been used in large enough amounts to start exposing all of us at some level since 1994 when roundup ready soybeans were invented. And not at near the current levels until about 2010 when roundup ready corn was in full production. Until then roundup was just something used to clear a field now and then, not routinely sprayed on every field multiple times a year. We have never been exposed to this extent. In 2001 production of Roundup had climbed to 85 million pounds. By 2007 it had climbed to 185 million pounds. It's hard to find a substantiated number since 2007 (that 2007 number is well documented by the EPA) but Wikipedia has this: "A 2012 study found that over the 16 year period since genetically modified crops were introduced, "herbicide-resistant crop technology has led to a 239 million kilogram (527 million pound) increase in herbicide use in the United States between 1996 and 2011"--Charles M Benbrook Impacts of genetically engineered crops on pesticide use in the U.S. - the first sixteen years Environmental Sciences Europe 2012, 24:24 http://www.enveurope.com/content/24/1/24

    Yes. That is recent.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #92
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    Jul 2011
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    Crenshaw County, Alabama
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    I don't know whether Round-Up is good, bad, or indifferent...

    What I do know is that I smoked cigarettes for about 35 years. I thank God for helping me quit about eight years ago...as of this moment I've not been diagnosed with cancer. Over the last couple of decades smoking has gotten some needed bad publicity and for the last several years the number of people smoking in the US has continued to decline as has lung cancer...think there's a connection there? Liver (and pancreatic) cancer, though, are on the rise. Being as the liver is one of our body's filters it makes me wonder if the cause of increased liver cancer cases is due to something it is filtering....


    Ed

  13. #93
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    596

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by spammy_h View Post
    I'm not saying that roundup is good for bees, because I don't think it's good for anyone - human, cattle, insect, etc. to ingest it, but my perspective is this:

    We have seen an increase in CCD that, to me, historically seems to track with the proliferation of GMO crops. We have also seen a huge increase in gluten intolerance that appears to also track with the increased use of GMO wheat and corn.

    I can't control where my bees go, and there is a GMO corn/soybean field .5 miles from my house. I'm more concerned with that field than I am with the Roundup that I spray at night.

    I'm not saying that spraying acres of Roundup is a good thing for bees, because it probably is not, but I think that the prevalence of GMO crops has more to do with bee population decline than any pesticide in use today.

    Here is an article about GMO usage and bee decline. Please look at the picture of the dissected bees: http://www.globalresearch.ca/death-o...-america/25950

    Also, I have observed that several people I know who have severe wheat gluten intolerance issues remarkably are able to eat wheat products that do not contain GMO wheat without problems.

    I think the same goes for bees. Just my $.02 from a new beek
    GMO wheat is something that I have never seen. Who has this wheat? Who owns it? What is it called? What are it's GMO traits?

  14. #94
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    Jul 2008
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    Aberdeen, Idaho
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    512

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    There are not any GMO wheat, barley, or oats in production, so that can not be the cause of the increased incidence of Celiacs disease. They are in the research phase and are not in the food chain at all. All of the cereal varieties have been developed by conventional plant breeding. So look back through this thread and look at the all of the mis-information given by the sky is falling group. Maybe what we should be more concerned with are the natural toxins that are present in our food chain. The same natural toxins that have been reduced by conventional plant breeding. I am retired now, but spent 28 years in cereal plant breeding.
    Dave

  15. #95
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    Sep 2011
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    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    596

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Dave it appears then that spammy got caught in a lie about GMO wheat?

  16. #96
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    Jan 2009
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    collbran, co
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    550

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    i have no problem with weeds i just keep running them over with my lawn mower and eventually they don't show up anymore.especially when it snows

  17. #97
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    May 2014
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    Sedgwick Co. KS
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by franktrujillo View Post
    i have no problem with weeds i just keep running them over with my lawn mower and eventually they don't show up anymore.especially when it snows
    ...but, Frank, 'weed' is legal now in CO.

  18. #98
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    Jun 2011
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    brownwood, TX, USA
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    861

    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Quote Originally Posted by franktrujillo View Post
    i have no problem with weeds i just keep running them over with my lawn mower and eventually they don't show up anymore.especially when it snows
    I have read, and I paraphrase that the organic landscapers tell you 'to keep mowing weeds and not letting them seed and they will eventually go away,' or something to that account. I moved into a home on three acres five years ago. The previous owner mowed and watered about one acre. I followed his method because the sprinkler system was in place. The yard was composed of one of the short hybrid bermuda grasses with lots of weeds in the mix. I have kept it mowed for five years without letting the weeds go to seed, except for dandelions that flower so close to the ground that they can't be mowed. I will admit that there are less grass burrs in my yard, but the thistles and other noxious weeds just keep on coming up. I fertilize once a year with some organic fertilizer. At 75 years of age, I don't think I am going to see the end of my weeds. It is a SLOW process.

  19. #99
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    Jun 2013
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    Shediac, NB, Canada
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Back on topic - couple of articles people can read and use to form their own opinions.
    http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-...#axzz3AKqBvdbY
    Essence - Roundup is now being used to help dry crops which increases residue in food. Linked to celiac/gluten intolerance, but likely early days of the research.

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/organ...#axzz3AKqBvdbY
    Related in a way - modern wheat strains don't cause any more issues than "ancient" strains, despite numerous popular (but unscientific claims) to the contrary (part 1 can be found at the link)

  20. #100
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Roundup as safe as we have been told?

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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