Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 43
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sacramento,California,USA
    Posts
    3,557

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Here is a simple way that I have made increase using two story nucs.

    In a 5 frame two story nuc hive, I make sure there is one frame of mostly eggs in the center of the bottom box, with a frame of mostly pollen on one side of it and a frame of mostly open nectar on the other side of it. The two outer frames, I like to have sealed and emerging brood, but one of those can be a frame of stores. Other frame arrangements can be made, depending on what you have in the nuc, but the one frame with a lot of eggs is needed for sure.

    The rest of the frames and the queen go in the top box, with a queen excluder in between the two boxes. I set this up sometime in the mid to late afternoon. Then the next day in the mid morning, I set the top box off to the side of the bottom box, with it's entrance turned 180 degrees so it is facing the other direction.

    Now the next day in the late afternoon, after 36 hours or close to it, I take and put the queens box back on top of the queenless box, with a queen excluder in between the two boxes. From being queenless for 36 hours, the bees get in queen cell building mode, and I find that a few queen cells of good quality will be built in the bottom box after being joined with excluder. The bees in the bottom box get most of the activity as the entrance is a lower entrance in the bottom box, and the queen is not there, she is pinned above the excluder, so her pheromones are not strong in the bottom box now. So I think they build cells as if replacing a failing queen.

    Now in 9 days after joining the boxes, I move the bottom box to a new stand, and give the box left in place another box on top to expand up into, as they will now get the field force and they have the laying queen. Doing this makes the box moved away lose the field force and reduces the population, so that in one or two more days when the queen cells emerge, there is much less chance of them swarming. At the time of moving this box away to a new stand, I now have the option of cutting out queen cells for making other splits, if I so desire.

    There are a few variations on this theme, but this is one way I've used to create just a few cells so that I can make a split with low probability of swarming happening. I call it an enhanced walk away split, as it gives nice well built queen cells with out grafting and not too much intense manipulations. Also, you can modify the timings in this so that it can easily be done on a weekend schedule by moving the bottom box to a new stand in 7 or 8 days later instead of the 9 days. Makes it very convenient for us weekend beekeepers!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    186

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by RayMarler View Post
    Here is a simple way that I have made increase using two story nucs. ... I call it an enhanced walk away split, as it gives nice well built queen cells with out grafting and not too much intense manipulations.
    Nice, Ray. THANKS!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    1,893

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by RayMarler View Post
    Here is a simple way that I have made increase using two story nucs....
    Nice! How do you think this work with a hive consisting of 8-frame mediums?

    Ed

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Essex NY
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Your plan sounds as if it utilizes the basic principle behind the Juniper Hill Plan for Comb Honey or using a Cloake board. Just distancing the queen from most of the bees (by comb or honey supers does the trick). I was planning on trying something similar with a regular two story 10 frame colony that is a little behind the others. I want to save some of the genetics as the queen is in her 3rd season (yellow paint) so I thought I might apply the plan to a honey producing colony by way of a little experiment. Just wish I had done the manipulation a couple of weeks ago as we are just past one of the heaviest black locust flows in the last 20 years.

    "Nice! How do you think this work with a hive consisting of 8-frame mediums?"

    Try it and see. Maybe a little extra honey and some new queens!

    Trying, thinking, observing success or failure, its all part of the "joy of beekeeping" that keeps us coming back for more.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    905

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Tom - with only 2 hives, your first endeavor should be increase before you worry about sustainability. Read Dr. Lawrence John Connor's book, Increase Essentials. This is one of the fundamental beekeeping skills that needs to be mastered before a sustainable queen rearing operation can become a reality.

    Do not be afraid to buy queens at first. Starting with good stock is a great jump in all animal husbandry.

    As you learn, try different things. Each area has it's strengths and weaknesses. Some areas are great for making lots of honey, some are great for making over-wintered nucleus colonies, some places are situate ideally for making pollination money. Your time/level of effort/abilities, your bee colonies, even other factors will play a big part in how your apiary is ultimately set up. As we often say in beekeeping, "Give it a few years, and go with what works."

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    I did a two story nuc kind of like ray. Found a supercedure cell, artificially swarmed the queen with a single frame and 4 brand new pf100's. Moved rest of nuc 5' away and turned it facing opposite direction it was. Original cell failed, found 4-5 nice queencells about 9 days later, made sure each box had a frame with cells, bought new top and bottom board, took top box off and put on new bottom board, put top on and now have 3 nucs instead of one.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,069

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Until my last August wipeout my plan for this year was to do a side by side comparison of Ray's queen removal and simply inserting an excluder between upper and lower bodies with brood on both sides.
    Expectation was removal would yield more cells and excluder would be closer to superceder than emergency. Have to wait until next year unless someone gives it a try. (hint, hint)

    Method has the usual drawbacks of walk away splits; not as sure of the exact age of cells and they are not single packaged, usually some are joined, but method is more economical on resources than a walk away. Much less resources required than dedicated builder.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    905

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Salty-
    With very little bee resources, a vented nuc cell starter and running VERY FEW queens (like a single bar of 10) should yield a few good, large cells to get back in the game with.

    I got lucky with only 2 colonies a few years ago, although I did not use a small nuc like that. One colony had overwintered 5 deeps tall and the other, a tiny swarm in November, grew up big enough in February to handle Cell Builder duty.

    I happened to check them 8 days after adding the excluder and the imported brood, and removed 8 swarm cells and made nucs from these. 3 more swarm cell starts were found on day 11, grafting day. These were not ready to plant, so I destroyed them, and removed all the brood that wasn't capped, and compressed the now 4-boxes-tall colony down to 3-boxes-tall (for additional crowding). That was my first graft of the season, as usual a low take on my first graft of the year. I got 7 cells using a slight variation on Brother Adam / Michael Palmer's method and ended up with 15 colonies.

    One thing that MP does that really helps is making up a super-fresh pollen frame out of empty, drawn comb by shaking fresh pollen out of the trap into it. You could make one of these for a nuc cell starter, or make 2 of these (yeah, the grafts go in between them) for a full 10-frame Cell starter/finisher colony.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,069

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    kilocharlie,
    Still just barely crawling, (2) 2 frame mediums and (2) 2 frame deeps with laying queens. A week old today. Got to get bees building up first, maybe 2 more nucs and then get them ready for winter.
    Hope to keep them out of the bug spray, brother's spot has fewer neighbors.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    905

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Yep, Increase before Queen Rearing! Use top-quality feeds and hive entrance reducers to keep them safe through the nectar dearth probably coming in a few weeks to a month or so. Good luck!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    new castle delaware usa
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    One thing that MP does that really helps is making up a super-fresh pollen frame out of empty, drawn comb by shaking fresh pollen out of the trap into it. You could make one of these for a nuc cell starter, or make 2 of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kilo can the bees process raw pollen and use it for making Royal Jelly? I remember reading somewhere (might be here) that the spheres of the pollen are coated withe silica and the bacteria breaks it down for the bees to digest and use as bee bread. If that is true, fresh pollen would be of no help at the time of making a queen, bee bread would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pete

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    905

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Interesting point - maybe I have it wrong. Better go to the source - I'll pm Michael Palmer, if he doesn't respond first!

    So far, doing this has upped my score, but I may have been using less-than-ideal pollen frames before. I do not have a qualifying control group to compare against objectively, nor a variety of "aged" pollen frames to compare against. Michael has been getting rather remarkable results, so let's ask him the exact procedure!

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    new castle delaware usa
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    I`ve had a face to face with Mike about this, I`m asking what do you think ?,,,,,,,,,Pete

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Interesting point - maybe I have it wrong. Better go to the source - I'll pm Michael Palmer, if he doesn't respond first!
    Yes, I've heard it before. Pollen harvested from pollen traps isn't bee bread, and bees require bee bread to produce royal jelly. Well, all I can say is look at the results. Big queen cells still full of jelly on day 10 when I place them in the mating nucs. If the bees couldn't use the pollen, then why the good results? There is no other pollen in my cell builders.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by oldiron56 View Post
    I`ve had a face to face with Mike about this ,,,,,,,,,Pete
    We did?

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    new castle delaware usa
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Yes Mike in Delaware. Also in EAS Vermont , I showed you a folding frame that fit my mating nucs. I`ve based my method of raising nucs and queens on things Ive`d learned from your posts. 7 OW nucs and 7 hives made 63 nucs so far, still alot to learn. I steal bee bread from one of them to put next to the grafts. I tried moving the queen out of a strong nuc and giving them a graft, 90% take. Thanx for your posts they have inspired me and others alot ,,,,,,,,Pete

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by oldiron56 View Post
    Yes Mike in Delaware. Also in EAS Vermont , I showed you a folding frame that fit my mating nucs. ,,,,,,,,Pete
    I usually forget names. I sometimes forget faces. I never forget folding mating nuc frames.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,586

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    And I have never even seen a folding mating nuc frames before. What do they look like?
    How are they used? Pics would be great!
    Gratefulness is the key to a happy lifeIf we are not grateful then we will not be happy since we always want something +

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    new castle delaware usa
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Wish I could post pics, gotta get my nefew to show me how, ha! It is a 19 inch frame that folds in half. You put it in a hive and get it laid up then fold it with bees and all and put it in a mini nuc and give it a cell. when your done with it for the year open it and put it in a hive to hatch out. Dave Cushman has a plan for one on his site,,,,,,,,,,,,Pete

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    River Falls, WI, USA
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Sustainability in a small yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I usually forget names. I sometimes forget faces. I never forget folding mating nuc frames.
    What is folding mating nuc frames???

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads