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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default First tree trap out

    Hi everyone: I am going to attempt a trap out of a tree. I have built a Hogan Trap to try. Now there are a couple of issues that I am facing on this.

    1) The tree is 5 feet from a road and the entrance is facing the road. (it is in a cemetery, on the main drive through it) They prefer I don't do a cut out. Talked with the guys that are going to cut it down to see if they would drop it and I would take tree and bees. No dice they will not cut the tree until the bees are gone or dead.
    2) I only have til May 20th to get the bees out before sprayed and the tree is taken down.
    3) I do not have any open brood to place in the trap. My 3 hives that made it though winter are very weak and the Queens are not laying good right now. Order 3 new Queens to replace them with They will be ready for pick up in a week or so.

    I have spent the last couple of days searching for old threads about this and haven't found anything.

    So if I put LGO in the Hogan Trap with empty drawn comb would this bring them out? Or is there something else I could try? Could I drill into the back of the tree and put some kind of oil in it that would drive them out? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,514

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    1. Cut down the tree yourself and take the section with the bees. They can clean up the rest.
    2. Screen in the bees the in at night the evening before they cut the tree. Have them take the tree above the hive. You take the section with bees later after the wussies leave. lol jk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Mr. Beeman: I have offered to cut the tree down for free. But they will not let me due to liability issues. I also told the wussies (lol) that I would seal the tree and have them drop it, but there reply was " there still live bees in it. No f#!*n way." This is why I'm asking for advice. I've tried all the sensible approaches to no avail.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Franklin co, IN. USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    I would try this using a cordless drill with a 2" hole saw and a cordless sawzall with a 6" to 8" blade cut little holes and slits use a bee vacuum to get them out you should get majority of the bees. I would suit up get them pissed so they come out and suck them in the bee vac.

    (Good Luck) if you have the will there is a way

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Let me see if I can help you.

    If cutting the tree and removing from the property, with bees still in the log, is out of the question, then a trap out appears to be your only option.

    I would install the trap, let the bees get used to going through it for a couple of days, then, install the funnel or screen cone on the end of the tunnel. Place drawn brood comb in the trap. The bees won't do much with foundation until they are established and there is a major honey flow. You likely do not have enough time for that.

    With the funnel or screen cone in place, all bees that leave the tree cannot get back into the tree. Initially you will get guard bees to move out to the front (guarding the only entrance), then you will get field bees that exit for forage. When they return, they cannot get back to the tree, so they will deposit their pollen or nectar in the drawn comb. On subsequent trips they will use the trap as their home because they deposited their last load in the trap.

    Over the next couple of days other bees will exit the tree for cleansing flights or rest in early afternoon. They too cannot get back into the tree and will take up residence in the trap. As more bees build up in the trap, others will come out of the tree. Today is 11 April, and by may 20th you should have virtually all the bees from the tree in your trap. If your funnel or cone is large enough, you might get the queen as the strength of the tree colony dwindles. When there are only a few bees left in the tree, she will come out.

    If it were me, I would remove frames of bees as you get 4 to 8 pounds of bees in the trap. (add them to a weak hive, or purchase a queen and start a new colony). My reasoning is, if the colony is a large one you may wind up needing a couple or more brood boxes just to hold the bees that exit the tree. It is easier to move smaller quantities of bees.

    At the end, (20 May) if you do not have them all out, you or they can eliminate what are left. At any rate you may have 2 or three new colonies, (if you don't need them, sell them), or you will may have one very large colony in your trap.

    Open brood will speed up the process, will assist in getting the queen in the trap, but, you can eliminate the colony without it. I would not use LGO. No real benefit in this case.

    You could drill a hold and use lots of smoke and get lots of them to come out, but, a very significant number of bees will simply stick their heads in honey and wait until the smoke goes away. I would not recommend this. Very traumatic to the bees, and you will not get any where near all of them.

    You could drill a hole in the back of the tree and put "Bee Go" in the hole, and most of the bees will abscond into your trap, then outside. But, your trap will smell like "Bee Go", Jeromesvill Ohio will smell like "Bee Go", and people will likely smell it all the way to Kansas City. I would not recommend this either. HA!!

    Simple trapout. You have plenty of time to get all or virtually all of them.

    cchoganjr

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Thanks Cleo for the advice. Installed the transition yesterday bees were using it, going to set the rest Monday April 14th. The county Bee Inspector stopped by just collecting info on winter die off. I told him what I was going to do, his advice was set the trap, remove the bees every other day until the numbers drop or til around May 14th or 15th then drill the hole in the back and squirt some almond or tea tree oil in it which should drive out the rest of the bees. Will keep you posted on progress.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    I hate to disagree with the inspector, but, I would only remove the bees when I had enough to start another colony by adding a queen to them. Might be two days, might be five days. If you just need bees to add to your other colonies that would be O.K. but, for the work you will put into this project there needs to be a reward, specifically, two or three colonies of bees, to increase hive count or sell as nucs.

    After taking off two or three colonies, and the numbers per day get smaller, then, you might remove bees every other day. Until then, I would wait until I had enough bees, (minimum of three pounds, three or more frames well covered with bees) before I took them away. Without open brood you will not get a lot of nurse bees, housekeepers, and fanners in the early trapping. The unsealed brood is what brings out the nurse bees to care for it. Therefore, I would want larger numbers of bees on the frames than you would take if you had introduced open brood and it was covered with nurse bees.

    Not sure how it is in your area, but in my area it is no problem to sell bees if you don't need the additional colonies.

    cchoganjr

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Cleo thanks for the info. I will plan on leaving the bees there until I have enough to remove for a new colony. I drove by the transition this morning they act as though it as always been there. Can't wait to put the box on Monday, their calling for rain and a high in the mid 40's will that hinder the bees in any way of accepting the box as part of their hive. Looking at the forecast it is only going to be in the low to mid 40's all week. I plan on putting the funnel in the following Monday to give them a week to get acclimated to the new box. I am also hoping that my new queens arrive in a few days, planning on taking an old queen put her in a cage and put in the box to try and draw out the existing queen.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    If the temp stays in the 40's the bees may not come out into your trap until they start foraging again. They will cluster around the brood that is in the tree. They won't fly much at 40 degrees.

    Go with the plan you have outlined above.

    cchoganjr

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Installed box today. Hope I have everything right. Will put funnel in place Friday. Tried load some pics but will not load.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    019.jpg

    This is the trap. Hope I did it right.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Saucier,Ms
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Not trying to Hijack you post MR2Bs, However I do have a question for Mr. Cleo about the screen cone: What diamater should the exit hole bee into the brood chamber/box? I have a trap out that I need to do and that is the only part of you process that I am unclear of.

    Thanks in advance....again MR2Bs sorry for hijacking your post.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    D1here you are not Hijacking this thread. Its here for everyone to ask questions and reply as long as it stays on topic.

    My opening is the size of a pencil and frayed the end of the screen. Don't know if its right but that is my understanding. I found that here on another post. Do a search "funnel" Hope that helps

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Saucier,Ms
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    thank you, thats kinda what I was thinking the size should be.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    That is the size I use also. About the size of a pencil, and fray back the ends so it will prick a bee if they try to get back in, but is smooth when they are coming out.

    cchoganjr

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Saucier,Ms
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    thanks guys

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
    Posts
    608

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    I hate to disagree with the inspector, but, I would only remove the bees when I had enough to start another colony by adding a queen to them. Might be two days, might be five days. If you just need bees to add to your other colonies that would be O.K. but, for the work you will put into this project there needs to be a reward, specifically, two or three colonies of bees, to increase hive count or sell as nucs.

    After taking off two or three colonies, and the numbers per day get smaller, then, you might remove bees every other day. Until then, I would wait until I had enough bees, (minimum of three pounds, three or more frames well covered with bees) before I took them away. Without open brood you will not get a lot of nurse bees, housekeepers, and fanners in the early trapping. The unsealed brood is what brings out the nurse bees to care for it. Therefore, I would want larger numbers of bees on the frames than you would take if you had introduced open brood and it was covered with nurse bees.

    Not sure how it is in your area, but in my area it is no problem to sell bees if you don't need the additional colonies.

    cchoganjr
    Excellent knowledge being shared. Nice job by you. I don't have any scheduled trap outs but I have one, "in the works". I was able to use open brood so different situation but I'll keep your advice handy.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jeromesville, OH
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Installed the funnel yesterday watch the bees, to make sure they could get through it, they can just fine. Plan on returning Tuesday to check and or remove bees.

    Cleo: How long after removing bees without the queen and putting them in a hive should I wait to put in a new queen?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    Same day would bee good, if not possible then as soon thereafter as possible.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Garfield, Arkansas, usa
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: First tree trap out

    you could cut straight into the tree with a chainsaw carefully. Cut out a big square plug and then pull it out and then you can do a cutout. All you need is a big enough hole to get the colony out. That way you are not actually cutting the tree down. If someone is going to cut it anyway that is what i would do. Could have all that done in 3 hours and gone and done with it.

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