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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    I received my recent shipment of Mann Lake PF-120 frames yesterday and as I was removing them from the boxes and placing them in freshly assembled and painted medium supers, I came across an interesting transition.

    Check out this picture: http://parkerfarms.biz/Images/mlpf120.jpg

    What I appeared to catch was the transition from one plastic supply to another. I even have some which have streaks of the older plastic while being made mostly of the newer.

    This has happened once before to my knowledge. The original PF-120 frames (of which Michael Bush has thousands and you can see all over his website) were white. I have 20 of those originals. The frames that I have been purchasing over the past couple years have been yellow, slightly translucent, in other words you can see light through them if you hold them up to the sun.

    However, these new ones are completely opaque, you cannot see light through them if you hold them up to the sun. They are of a slightly darker yellow plastic.

    I don't really see any other changes. They've obviously not changed the mold, that would cost thousands of dollars, but it seems they have changed the plastic.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Solomon Parker; 04-11-2014 at 11:44 AM.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    They did change the mold between my frames and the more recent ones. Mine have a flat bottom in the cells and the new ones have the "Y" in the bottom. You might want to measure them as well...

    Odds are you got it right and they just got a new batch of plastic in.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    131

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    I like a little translucence for back lighting. it makes it easier to spot eggs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    BeeTech, I fear you're out of luck there.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Crown Point, NY, USA
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    Solomon could you measure the new frames please and let me know if the cell size is still holding at 4.94?

    Clay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,397

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    The PF frames for Mann Lake are now produced by a company here in North Canton, Ohio. Same basic design, but a new plastics manufacturer. That might explain the change in color you are seeing.
    To everything there is a season....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,110

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    There was a mold change in the last couple years. About the time they switched to yellow.
    Possibly a new manufacturer.
    Dan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,592

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    They didn't look waxed to me. Are they? Or do you have to apply your own wax?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,110

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    They still have wax on them.
    Dan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,592

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    Much? Or do folks still like to add their own?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,397

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    The newer yellow frames I purchased still have a light coating of wax on them. Not too much different than the older ones. It's just enough so the bees take to them alright.
    To everything there is a season....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,344

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Not too much different than the older ones. It's just enough so the bees take to them alright.
    In the dark they all look the same to the girls.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,110

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    We use the Mann Lake PF series frames right out of the box, no wax added.
    I know a beekeeper who uses the plastic inserts & orders them with extra wax. They are larger cell.
    Dan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    5,071

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    Clayton, same cell size, appears to be the same mold (new mold would require 50,000 unit production run to be economical).
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    >Clayton, same cell size, appears to be the same mold (new mold would require 50,000 unit production run to be economical).

    But it's not the same mold they were using six or seven years ago. Those had a flat bottom in the cell. The new ones have a "Y" in the bottom (so they tell me). Is this not correct?

    Here are the old ones:
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Mann...sPF120-498.jpg
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Mann...sPF100-498.jpg
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Crown Point, NY, USA
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    MB just went and checked my pf 100's I bought last year they all have the flat bottoms. I wonder if Solomon's have the Y's at the bottom of the cell I'm inclinded to think that they do not. At least what I can see from his pics.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    It's hard to tell from Solomon's picture. Off to the right of the rightmost frame and more toward the top it kind of looks like it has the rhombi in them. Someone sent me a recent picture they said was PF100s and they had the rhombi in the bottom of the cells. Maybe Solomon can clarify the issue.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    Mine do have the "Y" but it's so shallow I'd hardly count it as there. It's really very weak. You have to look really closely. It's nothing like wax foundation.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,797

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    >Mine do have the "Y" but it's so shallow I'd hardly count it as there. It's really very weak. You have to look really closely. It's nothing like wax foundation.

    Mine are perfectly flat on the bottom. No "Y" whatsoever. So it is a different mold.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    389

    Default Re: Is Mann Lake Changing the plastic for the PF-120 frames?

    The plastic pellets used in injection moulding are a commodity like most raw materials. The injection moulding company likely changed suppliers. Though they could have changed the formulation. It's unlikely that they modified the mould at the same time. I noticed a difference in colour with my last order as well.
    Adam - Zone 5A
    www.adamshoney.com

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