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My TF Trial is over - for the time being

44K views 143 replies 33 participants last post by  THALL 
#1 ·
Conditions allowed me to check my TF yard yesterday and what I found was disappointing.

Of 4 full colonies and 3 double nucs, 1 colony made it through. The colony that survived was in three deeps.

The wind had blown 1 nuc (strapped) into another causing the boxes to separate creating a gap for the cold and wind.

These were BeeWeaver Bees started from Packages in 2012 and their descendants.

The remaining hive will be moved to another yard and treated as IPM indicates. I intend to make some queens from the surviving colony.

A treated yard half a mile away fared similarly with one survivor out of eight.

I've been using purchased stock for my TF yard (first Russian and then BeeWeaver) and my pockets aren't deep enough to have another go.

Mite counts were low last September (tested by alcohol wash.)

I am in hopes that one day robust TF bees will be commonly available.
 
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#88 ·
One further thought: Andrew wrote:

"These were BeeWeaver Bees started from Packages in 2012 and their descendants."

That 'descendents' ... on the queen side yes, but how much of a chance to inherit mite management behaviours did the offspring get on the drone side?

Whether or not that had anything to do with the result, its a question tf and prospective tf beekeepers can think about. I think if you don't have ferals - Andrew thinks he doesn't - who've made a start on resistance, its worth making a well planned effort to maintain it in offspring of bought resistant bees.

Mike (UK)
 
#89 ·
In a deadout you won't find too many mites. To find out if it was mites or something different, do the following.

Take a good cup full of dead bees and sort them by their body size. The smallest bees go to the upmost row, the biggest bees to the lowest row. You end up with say five rows of dead bees. If the picture of this is like a upside down pyramide, the row with the smallest bees being the longest, the bees were damaged by varroa most likely. If the overall picture resembles a pyramide shape, the row with the bigger bees being the longest, mites weren't the problem.

Good way to find out mite problems in a deadout. You also should check the ceiling of the cells, if there is whiteish stuff, this is varroa faeces. The more cells have it, the more mites the colony has had.
 
#108 ·
If the picture of this is like a upside down pyramide, the row with the smallest bees being the longest, the bees were damaged by varroa most likely. If the overall picture resembles a pyramide shape, the row with the bigger bees being the longest, mites weren't the problem.
I imagine this was written with a big grin on your face as well.
 
#106 · (Edited)
Saltybee
It wasn't my equipment, I was just demonstrating at the event.
Most people in Ireland use British national size rather than Langs so I think from memory that is what it was.
They measure 18 1/8 inch square and take 11 frames which have a brood area of 14 inches by 8 inches.
The supers take frames 14 inches by 5 inches approx, depending upon spacing there can be 8-11 in there.

Pete/Beeuk will tell you exactly. He makes them in his business.
 
#114 ·
Barry, in Europe they spend hundreds of millions of Euros on varroa research. Unfortunately it all goes into studies like: what is the varroa resistance gene? and the like. Nothing down-to-earth or practical. At least one electric device that beeps and blinks/flashes has to be involved in a decent study. You won't find a pratical approach like the one described in recently published studies. It is a pitty. Beekeepers are own their own to develop hands-on solutions.
 
#117 ·
I'm trying to follow Tim's hive configuration, etc. .

3 deeps certainly didn't hurt. Not really small cell, though I had them in the lowest super. BeeWeavers from Texas, so no locally mated queens. I'm not opposed to artificial feed, but I have a super of honey in reserve for each colony when I'm ready to 'light the fuse'.

I think I lost a lot of bees this winter to the cold. So, I lost some initial momentum.

I'll have to wait to see how things work out.
 
#119 ·
Sqkcrk:

I've seen piles of dead bees on the bottom board this winter, but they've since cleaned them up.

Both hives look fine now, but I found a wind blown pile of bees, and a wide streak of dead bees leading to the pile. It looked like it came from my 'best' hive. This was in March.

There was a warm up, then a cold snap that coincided with it. They were flying just the week before that.

Right now, the night time temps are still below 50 degrees F.

It's almost May, and the Callery pears are STILL in bloom.

Things have been pushed back a few weeks.

So, I've got to roll with it.
 
#121 ·
mike bispham;1097273 I keep entrances small and hives dryish said:
Same here, using 4.9mm starter strips. Usually cutting full sheets of deep into 4ths. I recently started wiring the frames, especially those 3rd and 4th boxes for extraction purposes.
Do you practice using the housel positioning of the foundation when placing the frames?

And WLC, just to clarify, I do have some single and double deeps that overwintered, from last year's splits and swarms, but they have not built up like the 3-4 deeps did this spring. I am trying to build up "honey production hives" at least 3 deep going into the following winter. It just seems they cope better with weather, pests and other variables. Thank you for the replies and good luck to everyone this Spring.

Mike in N. Tx
 
#122 ·
Do you practice using the housel positioning of the foundation when placing the frames?
I only leave some 1/2" of wax strip, often odd ends, just to give them the hint. It seems enough. I don't look at the housel business.

Thank you for the replies and good luck to everyone this Spring.
And to you Mike

Mike (UK)
 
#124 ·
Thanks for the link Oldtimer. When doing cutouts and swarms with comb under the eaves of houses, I've often noticed the so-called "Y's" in the comb start tilting to one side in more of a spherical configuration around the center of the combs. I'm not sure about how much the housel positioning in man-made foundation affects the way a hive draws out comb or the location of brood, which is why I like using the starter strips. The bees can adapt and change as they see fit. But that's the way I start them out and have seen them start tilting the orientation in the hives as well.
 
#125 ·
I think that has more to do with the way it suits them to start building the combs, than the necessity of housel position. I too will see what you say, but as often as not they do not build in a way consistent with housel theory. However, if someone wants to do it there is little harm in it.
 
#130 ·
I used to keep bees when I was a young fella'. My Grandpa took over for me when the wonder lust struck. I didn't start again until last late spring with 3 packages of BeeWeaver VSH and all new equipment. I wish I had gone with small cell. I guess I can go small cell with any increase I get. My intent is to go TF. All three hives made it through winter in good shape. I plan to monitor for mites beginning this year.

I have spent many hours reading on this site. Thank you all for the help.
 
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