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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Young County, Tx
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    [QUOTE=mike bispham;1097273 I keep entrances small and hives dryish, and don't use foundation - just starter strip.

    I can't help thinking the free celling might be making a difference.

    Mike UK[/QUOTE]

    Same here, using 4.9mm starter strips. Usually cutting full sheets of deep into 4ths. I recently started wiring the frames, especially those 3rd and 4th boxes for extraction purposes.
    Do you practice using the housel positioning of the foundation when placing the frames?

    And WLC, just to clarify, I do have some single and double deeps that overwintered, from last year's splits and swarms, but they have not built up like the 3-4 deeps did this spring. I am trying to build up "honey production hives" at least 3 deep going into the following winter. It just seems they cope better with weather, pests and other variables. Thank you for the replies and good luck to everyone this Spring.

    Mike in N. Tx

  2. #122
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    2,027

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by wissler View Post
    Do you practice using the housel positioning of the foundation when placing the frames?
    I only leave some 1/2" of wax strip, often odd ends, just to give them the hint. It seems enough. I don't look at the housel business.

    Quote Originally Posted by wissler View Post
    Thank you for the replies and good luck to everyone this Spring.
    And to you Mike

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    7,066

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by wissler View Post
    Do you practice using the housel positioning of the foundation when placing the frames?
    Not me either, I have not found the wild hives I've looked at practising it so why would I practise it?

    Please read http://talkingstick.me/bees/housel-positioning/

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Young County, Tx
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Thanks for the link Oldtimer. When doing cutouts and swarms with comb under the eaves of houses, I've often noticed the so-called "Y's" in the comb start tilting to one side in more of a spherical configuration around the center of the combs. I'm not sure about how much the housel positioning in man-made foundation affects the way a hive draws out comb or the location of brood, which is why I like using the starter strips. The bees can adapt and change as they see fit. But that's the way I start them out and have seen them start tilting the orientation in the hives as well.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    7,066

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    I think that has more to do with the way it suits them to start building the combs, than the necessity of housel position. I too will see what you say, but as often as not they do not build in a way consistent with housel theory. However, if someone wants to do it there is little harm in it.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    In a deadout you won't find too many mites. To find out if it was mites or something different, do the following.

    Take a good cup full of dead bees and sort them by their body size. The smallest bees go to the upmost row, the biggest bees to the lowest row. You end up with say five rows of dead bees. If the picture of this is like a upside down pyramide, the row with the smallest bees being the longest, the bees were damaged by varroa most likely. If the overall picture resembles a pyramide shape, the row with the bigger bees being the longest, mites weren't the problem.

    Good way to find out mite problems in a deadout. You also should check the ceiling of the cells, if there is whiteish stuff, this is varroa faeces. The more cells have it, the more mites the colony has had.
    Now this is something I can use. Thank you.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    49,240

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    >Take a good cup full of dead bees and sort them by their body size.

    Newly emerged bees are always smaller than older bees and very noticeably smaller than field bees. I fail to see what you will prove.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    7,066

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    is that true when they are dead?

  9. #129

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    And small cell bees are smaller, too. I learned from you... So no method for your apiary...for all others it is a well established test over here, so you give it a try.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    I used to keep bees when I was a young fella'. My Grandpa took over for me when the wonder lust struck. I didn't start again until last late spring with 3 packages of BeeWeaver VSH and all new equipment. I wish I had gone with small cell. I guess I can go small cell with any increase I get. My intent is to go TF. All three hives made it through winter in good shape. I plan to monitor for mites beginning this year.

    I have spent many hours reading on this site. Thank you all for the help.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Penobscot County, ME, USA
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    OK, I've read through this whole thread, and there were some comments about bees being "acclimated"- "warm weather" bees in cold climates. My bees came out of GA, from a commercial operator who trucks them back and forth. They spend the Winters in GA, so they are in no way "acclimated" to the Winters here...but, it doesn't seem to make much difference. My Carniolans (when I take care of them properly) seem to do much better than my Italians, though to be fair, this is the first Winter I've tried to keep Italians. Personally, I think the breed matters more than whether they are "acclimated" or not.
    Zone 4a/b

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    49,240

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    >is that true when they are dead?

    I haven't done any carefully planned measurements on the topic, but from my observations I would say yes, it appears to be true.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #133
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,577

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBeeKeeper View Post
    OK, I've read through this whole thread, and there were some comments about bees being "acclimated"- "warm weather" bees in cold climates. My bees came out of GA, from a commercial operator who trucks them back and forth. They spend the Winters in GA, so they are in no way "acclimated" to the Winters here...but, it doesn't seem to make much difference. My Carniolans (when I take care of them properly) seem to do much better than my Italians, though to be fair, this is the first Winter I've tried to keep Italians. Personally, I think the breed matters more than whether they are "acclimated" or not.
    Since all the bees other than the queen do not live from year to year, I doubt they become acclimatized. I suspect that the bees that are survivors for a few generation in long wintered climates, start to have a higher percentage of Carniolan like genetics. From talking to people who have seen a lot of Ontario bees, they report dark queens, aside from cases where bees are brought in from Ca. or Hawaii. Not saying the Italian type cannot be kept up here but the Carnies seem to need less care and certainly less feed to keep them over the 6month winters.
    Frank

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Penobscot County, ME, USA
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Since all the bees other than the queen do not live from year to year, I doubt they become acclimatized.
    Yeah, LOL, I knew that but the thought didn't make it out through my fingers.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I suspect that the bees that are survivors for a few generation in long wintered climates, start to have a higher percentage of Carniolan like genetics. From talking to people who have seen a lot of Ontario bees, they report dark queens, aside from cases where bees are brought in from Ca. or Hawaii. Not saying the Italian type cannot be kept up here but the Carnies seem to need less care and certainly less feed to keep them over the 6month winters.
    That makes sense to me. I know that I intentionally chose the Carniolans to start with because I reasoned that their characteristics were likely to be more beneficial than the Italians in this climate and I wanted to put the odds in my favor as much as possible. I had a choice between the Carnis and Italians. I don't know how much different the Winter is in Ontario than here, though I've been to both Ottawa and Quebec City in the Winter and I have the impression that it gets a little colder.

    I didn't get a choice when I bought some nucs last year, but I had wanted to start bringing in some Italians anyway. Due to my PPBK and PPRK I've kinda lost track of which hives had Italian queens in them, I had bought some extra queens and kept them banked for emergencies, and I used all but one. But, I also made some splits off of Carni hives and may possibly have re-queened an established Carni hive with an Italian...and then some hives got combined in the Fall.

    I REALLY need to get better at keeping records before I get totally screwed up.
    Zone 4a/b

  15. #135
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,577

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBeeKeeper View Post
    .

    I REALLY need to get better at keeping records before I get totally screwed up.
    Oh my! Tell me about it! I have such good intentions of marking things down as soon as I get in the house but you know how good intentions are. I have one hive with some different habits that I want to breed from and see it they pass down. Cluster stayed deep and used virtually none of the loose sugar on top. Will have to see how they brood up and produce. Could be they are extra efficient but could be they are ailing. Without good record keeping we wind up chasing our tails!
    Frank

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,589

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Without good record keeping we wind up chasing our tails!

    --shinbone
    (4th year, Zone 5b, 10/12 hives survived W'14)

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    5,677

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    i take a cheap voice recorder out to the yard and dictate notes after each inspection, and then write them up later on the laptop.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  18. #138
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    2,027

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Microsoft Excel - Bee1.jpg

    I take notes and enter them to a spreadsheet. This tells me how many days to next visit, and what to take. I can automatically reorder the data to make to make a priority list. I changed the number of days till next visit on the first two to show how the number of days left entry automically supplies a traffic light column.

    The next sheet is a linked map that shows where the priorities are on the ground

    Overdoing it a little, but 80+ hives (back in the summer) meant it was worth developing a well targeted system. Now I have it its a piece of cake to use.

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i take a cheap voice recorder out to the yard and dictate notes after each inspection, and then write them up later on the laptop.
    I happen to have one of those from my work in construction. Thanks for jogging my memory.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    2,510

    Default Re: My TF Trial is over - for the time being

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post
    I happen to have one of those from my work in construction. Thanks for jogging my memory.
    I believe there are apps for smartphones that do this as well.

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