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  1. #21
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    Mar 2014
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    Lembach, Austria
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    13

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    The agreement is they own 20% of the company then. That means I have more than 50% which means my decision will be followed. I assume, but I haven't studied MBA

  2. #22
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    3,048

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    Stewardship will be your biggest problem, trust me. When your bees 'genetics' show up in unapproved countries, guess who gets the bill. I'm also telling you, the attitude towards GMO for most people is, 'they don't want it'. If you think getting a GMO product to market is as straight forward as you're making it sound you're fooling yourself. Just start talking to all the regulatory agencies involved to get a product out, and your head will spin in the first 30 seconds.

  3. #23
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    Mar 2014
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    Lembach, Austria
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    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    You don't think it's worth trying? Or fight for your dreams? Some country will allow it.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    2,074

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    In a season I can select up to 4 generation of bees to play with simultaneously. That is my ongoing dream although not a
    big one now. Since it is of natural selection I don't have to worry much about their genetic manipulation. All the good characteristics are here after 40 years of natural selection. All I need to do is to continue to select from the best one to continue this progress.
    Everything is contained locally for my own learning and research only. Of course there are many countries that will allow the
    people who have their dreams and the knowledge to try it. While you are still dreaming many people are doing it the natural
    way with AI, II already improving their stocks. Before you can improve you need to know what you are looking for first. How many
    years have you had hands on experience with the honey bees? I don't think you will allow your assistant beekeepers to handle such an important work. Do you?
    I luv bee source!

  5. #25
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    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lembach, Austria
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    13

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    In a season I can select up to 4 generation of bees to play with simultaneously. That is my ongoing dream although not a
    big one now. Since it is of natural selection I don't have to worry much about their genetic manipulation. All the good characteristics are here after 40 years of natural selection. All I need to do is to continue to select from the best one to continue this progress.
    Everything is contained locally for my own learning and research only. Of course there are many countries that will allow the
    people who have their dreams and the knowledge to try it. While you are still dreaming many people are doing it the natural
    way with AI, II already improving their stocks. Before you can improve you need to know what you are looking for first. How many
    years have you had hands on experience with the honey bees? I don't think you will allow your assistant beekeepers to handle such an important work. Do you?
    since it is of natural selection I don't have to worry much about their genetic manipulation.
    This is a common fallacy. When doing natural interbreeding, half of the genome (mother) recombines with half of the other genome (dad). There are weird things going on, namely jumping genes, retrotransposons, non-homologous end joining (aka illegimate recombination - DNA breaks and gets repaired, sometimes with errors), polymerase errors (mutation)...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

    While you are still dreaming many people are doing it the natural
    way with AI, II already improving their stocks.
    And this is here the problem is. I don't believe you can breed new traits fast enough. Else there would be no CCD any more already.


    EDIT: Deleted confidental information. Sry.
    Last edited by beemann; 04-10-2014 at 07:18 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
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    1,563

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    You don't think it's worth trying? Or fight for your dreams? Some country will allow it.
    I read through the posts and I doubt seriously you can do what you say. For starters, quoting Wikpedia instead of actual work done on gene modification in Apis. No mention of RNAi, or more importantly, CRISPR. RNAi is a much safer way to change gene expression and it is not permanent. Beyond that, you have no idea what to alter in the genome to bring about the changes in phenotype you propose. I think this is an April Fool's Joke, too.

    Pete

  7. #27
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    Mar 2014
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    Lembach, Austria
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    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    I read through the posts and I doubt seriously you can do what you say. For starters, quoting Wikpedia instead of actual work done on gene modification in Apis. No mention of RNAi, or more importantly, CRISPR. RNAi is a much safer way to change gene expression and it is not permanent. Beyond that, you have no idea what to alter in the genome to bring about the changes in phenotype you propose.
    I can't publicly write here whether I will use crispr or RNAi or some other mechanism like zink finger nuclease. You think I haven't considered using these methods? I assure you, I have carefully considered all options and choosen the smartest.

    Believe what you want, but to me it is a project I am working on hard and not some April joke.


    BTW, and just for your information, I assumed the people here have little molecular biological knowledge. So if I cited or linked to a wikipedia article, it was to show it is possible. Written in an understandable langugae for everyone.
    If I publicly post the scientific papers here, the usual folks won't care (probably not even read through the entire paper) and those with genetic engineering knowledge who want to steal my idea then have what they need without the long literature research I did.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Medfield, MA, USA
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    44

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    Hello Beeman,

    Not to sound too harsh, but you should really do your research before looking for gullible investors. From your first post, and follow-ups, there are several red flags that tell me you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not saying that you don't have some molecular biology experience, or that you don't have good intentions, but I've basically looked at the same research you have and your proposal is, to put it mildly, wildly optimistic.
    For starters, you claim you want to do this "before Monsanto gets to it" - well, do some research there, because Monsanto acquired Beelogics in 2011. When Monsanto acquires a company, it is for the patent rights - in this case pretty much anything having to do with honey bees and RNAi. If you think that there is money to be made, and that Monsanto is going to lay off and let you be the one to make it, you are fooling yourself. Monsanto has invested a lot in what is probably one of the worlds greatest concentrations of patent lawyers - and isn't afraid (or even hesitant) to use them. If your fledgling company doesn't ALREADY have a patent on file from before 2011, and at least a couple full-time patent lawyers on the payroll, then you can forget about it now.
    Secondly, the "wiping out viruses is the easy part" is an instant red flag. There is nothing easy about wiping out a virus, or imbuing 100% viral resistance - just because you've made some bacteria immune to ampicillin or kanomycin doesn't mean that you can make bees immune to deformed wing virus. And making stable transfections of cell lines is nothing like making stable transgenic organisms - transient transfection is fundamentally different from stable germ-line transformation. I'm not saying this is impossible, but the examples you use are poor analogues at best.
    Thirdly, you promise not to go after people for genetic drift, and claim to want to make money, these two things are mutually exclusive. I can understand how you might not get this, as you admit you don't keep bees, so maybe you aren't familiar with the natural method of reproduction in honey bees. The queens fly out of the hive and open-mate with any drones in the area. So by year two every bee hive within a several mile radius of whoever bought your original transgenic bees now has some mixture of those genetics in them - and the original colony (unless maintained under artificial insemination) now has a diluted version of the same. This comes back to my "do your research" assertion, I understand that you are passionate about this, but before you try introducing ANYTHING into the bee populations of the world, I would suggest that you keep bees yourself for a couple years and have a basic fundamental understanding of their biology.

  9. #29
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    Mar 2014
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    Lembach, Austria
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    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    If your fledgling company doesn't ALREADY have a patent on file from before 2011, and at least a couple full-time patent lawyers on the payroll, then you can forget about it now.
    Oh ****. But, I have lots of different mechanisms. Patents are there for going around them


    And making stable transfections of cell lines is nothing like making stable transgenic organisms - transient transfection is fundamentally different from stable germ-line transformation.
    Yeah, I know. But it is worth trying. I never promised it is going to work, did I. I am confident it will work. If noone tries, no one makes it.
    There are several ways to get stable integrations.


    I'm not saying this is impossible, but the examples you use are poor analogues at best.
    Yeah, surely. But understand me, I can't give working examples without a confidental agreement.


    Thirdly, you promise not to go after people for genetic drift, and claim to want to make money, these two things are mutually exclusive.
    Yeah right, but in this case I won't sue, I promise (however, why trust the man on the internet right? )
    I would know I contributed to environmental protection. Save the bees.
    And in year 2 I would have even better bees to sell. The version-1 bees will then be made open source, perhaps.


    I understand that you are passionate about this, but before you try introducing ANYTHING into the bee populations of the world, I would suggest that you keep bees yourself for a couple years and have a basic fundamental understanding of their biology.
    My coworker beekeeper will teach me, right?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Medfield, MA, USA
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    44

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    I hate to say it, but if you are truly interested in using genetic alteration to improve honey bee health, your best course is probably to talk to the people at the Beelogics division of Monsanto. They are well funded and have been studying it for years, you may not agree with their business plan, but a dedicated stream of revenue can't be underestimated in a laboratory, everything takes longer and costs more money than you initially estimate (it's what puts the "re" in "research").
    Even if you've got some good ideas, or a vague sense of the problem and an enthusiasm to help, your investors are going to get tired and go away if you don't have something promising to show for their investment way sooner than you realize. Most start-up ventures fail, and I can't help but noticing that yours seems doomed to failure on a number of levels, in the long run for your own sanity, it would probably be wiser to swallow your pride and go talk with the Beelogics people. I'm no huge fan of Monsanto, but if I had to guess I would say that most of the actual scientists working there probably feel very similarly to the way you do now, and were faced with the decision that - in a best case scenario - you would be faced with after 5-10 years of struggle - watch the company you founded wither and die as revenue dries up or get absorbed by a larger corporation with adequate funding that might not exactly match your core values.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
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    1,563

    Default Re: Job transgenic bee

    But understand me, I can't give working examples without a confidental agreement.
    Yes, and I have invented a method of producing unlimited energy for free. I would like to tell you more about it, but it is confidential and I am afraid you may try to steal my idea

    Sorry

    P

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