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Ferals

12K views 45 replies 15 participants last post by  iivydriff 
#1 ·
Is there any evidence (other than anecdotal) that ferals are becoming more prevalent again? ie, longer term ferals which are not derived from recently escaped swarms from managed stock.
If ferals are becoming more prevalent it implies that mite tolerance is improving.

A fairly recent study (2009) which looked at genetic diversity in Europe found no difference between the genetics of wild colonies in nature reserves and the genetics of managed colonies in the area. The paper did imply that there were more ferals in the US.

Estimating the Density of Honeybee Colonies across Their Natural Range to Fill the Gap in Pollinator Decline Censuses
RODOLFO JAFFé et al.

Restricting the analysis to Europe, however, erased the significant effect of land use, making agricultural landscapes and nature reserves indistinguishable in terms of genetic diversity or colony density.
Another explanation for the lack of a difference in genetic diversity and colony densities between agricultural landscapes and nature reserves in Europe is that wild honeybee populations may be absent from nature reserves. For instance, we did not detect a higher number of colonies in most European sampling locations compared with those kept by local beekeepers.
One of the main aims of the Native Irish Honeybee Society Varroa monitoring project is to select and promote varroa tolerance in the honeybee native to Ireland (Apis mellifera mellifera) with a long term view to seeing feral colonies reestablished.
At the moment, all I ever see is recently escaped swarms which have taken up residence in a chimney or behind the cladding below the roof of a house.
 
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#33 ·
One would think that would be the case, but there is a huge industry here of people selling queens to replace the ferals caught in swarms or relocated from cut-outs. Everybody has something better to sell you to replace the natural product.
 
#35 ·
It's not the fault of 'industry' that docility and productivity are sought after traits. Most ordinary hobbyist beekeepers want those traits. Did Seeley not find that when ferals were moved from one place to another they lost their ability to survive untreated for some reason? None of this is simple like you say.
You should be able to reduce aggression levels in any bees you start with if you breed from the more docile colonies and requeen those which have undesirable traits. The other thing would be to try and stabilize the population by avoiding mixing up the genetics all the time. I don't think there is any correlation between aggression and mite tolerance per se. Unless it is something which comes from scutellata, and not all surviving ferals are africanized.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I see no evidence that the California queen breeding industry is suppressing a search for mite resistance. On the contrary, the queen breeders I know engage in epic efforts to secure and test resistance.
One of Glenn's last efforts before he retired was to secure and test the last solitary survivors of the Santa Cruz Island Varroa bee extermination experiment. Breeders keep multiple TF and essential oil treated colonies to test response, and select from the best for grafting source.

Part of a cult's ethology is to develop a "persecution complex". This belief that evil industry overlords are sabotaging resistance is part and parcel of that. California breeders are working with due diligence to test mite response. In my own experience, I see no improved resistance in wild caught swarms from the wilderness compared to domestic queens.

I worked with patently Africanized bees in Costa Rica for a number of years, in Mexico and Guatemala, and now with their relatively tame half-breeds in southern California. These bees swarm constantly, and keep multiple queens so they can abscond and divide. That behavior is key to their mite escape -- constant swarm and division. Not a domestic trait.
 
#38 ·
@ Jonathan, you have accurately described my 5-10 year breeding plan.

I worked with patently Africanized bees in Costa Rica for a number of years, in Mexico and Guatemala, and now with their relatively tame half-breeds in southern California. These bees swarm constantly, and keep multiple queens so they can abscond and divide. That behavior is key to their mite escape -- constant swarm and division. Not a domestic trait.
With respect you cite this observation, mantra-like, every time the issue of AHB hybrid/feral mutts and mite resistance comes up. I work extensively with those same tame half-breeds all the time, though not as a commercial beekeeper, and I haven't seen any evidence that they are any more or less swarmy than domestic breeds. I would posit that perceived swarmy-ness has as much to do with brood nest management as inherited traits. I have several hives going into their third year without treatment that I have yet to see throw off a swarm, but then I let them expand their brood nest seasonally without excluders. The hives that others maintain of similar genetics throw off swarms when crowded or honeybound, but really what hives wouldn't?

Feral bees- even the So. Cal Ital/AHB mutts- are hardly monolithic in their expression of traits, which gives me a lot of hope in selecting commercially viable mite resistant stock.
 
#39 ·
Mine aren't very swarmy either. Not any more than regular bees. My oldest hive died at 4 1/2 - only threw one swarm I knew of. They were totally feral and most likely partially African. I never tested them because I could work with them and they made a lot of honey for me. They could also handle our, sometimes very cold and snowy, environment. Our bees are not really the same as the California bees though. I have seen some as Mr. Chestnut describes, but they are not that common here.

I can also see how dabbling in ferals would not benefit a commercial operation. Sort of like expecting wild mustangs to make good thoroughbreds.
 
#40 ·
Since Paul and I live in basically the same environment, just different latitudes, I do think it would be interesting to bring some of his ferals here to see if they express different traits further north. Im 96 miles north of the NM border.
 
#41 ·
I have some I guarantee would make it. They already live in the snowy mountains around 7000-8000 ft. My bees from the desert would have a rough go at it I bet. Or maybe not, it gets pretty dang cold and windy down there too.

I always laugh when people say "Oh it's a desert - it must be hot there?" - yes, for about 2 months, then it's back to cold and windy.
 
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